1500 points , guidance needed for new to WHFB player

[badgermeister]

Hi Guys and Girls

I picked up the Army Book today for the vampire counts and after first glances without reading to in-depth I've come up with close to a 1500 point army to start getting into fantasy with. As i currently own most of the models listed here its dictated a small part of my list. i'm currently awaiting delivery of the WHFB mini rule book from ebay so as of yet don't have an extended list of further banners and magical items available. this is as it looks so far

Mannfred the Acolyte

Necromancer (level 2)

Wight King ( BSB ) Banner of Barrows


34 Skeletons (spears, FC, Screaming Banner)

25 Skeletons (FC)

23 Grave Guard (Great Weapons)

Blood Knights (x5 inc Kastellan)


Overall this comes to 1361 points. I had plans for Mannfred and the BSB to stick with the GG and have my necromancer stick with the large skeleton mob. I was wondering where to spend the extra points as i'm not keen on zombies but will swallow my pride if i need to get some to bolster my forces at cheap points. Should dire wolves be of any worth? My blood knights are here to stay as i love the models and as the fine cast legs need some additional pinning to secure against the base i'm not going to put time into something i will barely use.

My idea (from only having one lesson as a beginner) is to resurrect the dead and tar pit as much as i can of the enemy and then begin the war of attrition by pushing them back.

Should i change the necromancer to a level one vampire hero? certainly more lethal in CC although i'm gathering with the troop stat lines of the undead this is not something they excel at.

Should i get a huge mob of zombies ? Should i upgrade my necromancer to master of the dead? with nearly 140 points left with the current list standing where would it be best invested ?

All criticisms would be greatly appreciated

[clarky101]

with VC the characters are the way you hit hard and win the combat. if you dont have good combat characters are not gunna be very good tar pits as they will get chewed through and loose as many by combat res as by the actual combat and you wont be able to create enough to keep them in the fight

white kings are a good and cheap way to do this as they are tough as nails and can dish out a fair bit of damage, with nearly 140 pts left you could either find a few more pts and get 2 white kings, or the other way would be to upgrade that lvl 2 into a lvl 4 which will help with the raising a hell of a lot.

i love blood knights too, sadly they are no longer the death star that they used to be but are still tasty

instead of 2 odd numbered units of skellys why dont you make 2 30 man units? hord them out with hand weapon and shield and that gives you the benifit of the spear but with the bonus of the 6+ ward save which i know doesnt sound alot but when combat res makes such a difference it really does pay. then make them bigger with the lvl 4

banner of the barrows is almost a must i think for bigish units of grave guard

these are just a few ideas, i go a very different way with my VC so my ideas may not work for you

[SinsoftheFallen]

1st. I would put the Banner of Barrows in the Grave Guard unit, not the BSB. The character is an easy target when the unit hits combat, and if he goes down you lose the banner, where if used as the units 50pt banner, you know it will be there until the unit is destroyed.
2nd. I think you need to up your unit numbers. You are using only Lvl 2 wizards, so while you be sure to have the Innvocation spell, the Dance and Vigor spells (which in my opinion is the only way for the undead troopsto come ahead in combats) will be iffy. You'll need a steady supply of all of these spells going off successfully if you hope to have your troops tie up the enemy long enough for your Grave Guard or Blood Knights to save the day.
3rd. Don't rule out Zombies. They are cheap as heck, they are 2D6 + caster level when being innvocationed, and when buffed they are terrifying.
4th. I would keep the necromancer. I think the Lvl 2 magic is very important...for spell power and to ensure you are getting the spells you want.

[badgermeister]

many thanks for the pointers, i'll keep with my funny number of skittles per unit as this is reflecting that within the unit it will contain HQ elements and having pre cut my movement trays i'd have to botch something to the back of it to make it able to fit the additional numbers. I'm happy with 2 x level 2 casters and remain undecided to the extra points and where to invest them. the vargheists look a good unit that i could fit in with a squeeze. my GG will be catering the banner of barrows and not the BSB as previously stated so do i need to make another model as a BSB or at this level should i invest elsewhere?

I realise i have enough points to place a huge unit of zombies on the board and with an upgrade to master of the dead on the necromancer i think this may be the way to go at 1500pts. any other recommendations?

[Genoraptor]

drop manfred and your necromancer, get a L3 or 4 master necro, and build a vampire with fear incarnate (if you have the points, aura of dark majesty also) this will make your units of skellybobs with screaming banner a much harder unit. corpse carts a bloody fantastic and if your planing to win by grinding out your opponent key to doing this.

clarkys right blood knights are the hardest cav in the game but you still have to support them, i assume you plan to hold them back to be that hammer to turn the tide when combat kicks off.

the BSB issue.... good news your undead and don't need one! banner of barrows in the unit as previously explained above.

have a look at some to the magic items.....you want the cursed book in your life. again if you want to grind it out this is very handy with lots of lore of shadows and i know its random but they are all very good debuff spells, and if you have (sorry to say) crappy units very useful. It also has another use, potentially you could draw out 3 dispel dice for for one of your power, even if its 3 lost each hopefully you will have the advantage of numbers say if you rolled a double for the winds your laughing as you will have loads of dice to throw and they will have few dice to dispel, vanhels, vigour and invocation. winning!

not necessary but good is the staff of damnation also very good its points, extra attacks and is that hidden augment spell you may need to set the corpse cart in to its always strikes first bubble of goodness.

hope some of this is relevant for you.

[badgermeister]

i have another game (my second game ever actually) a week on Sunday and will be trialling out my GG unit with BoB, Wight King with GW and Mannfred. My skeleton unit and necromancer will make an appearance too so as we typically get 3 turns max (beginners sessions are too short at GW on Sundays) i'll be using invocation and possibly something random for interest - maybe Hex for fun. As i'm new to the game i'm going to trial out my current list and modify as i go along. i saw a nasty dark elf army completely waste an ogre army on thursday and i'm figuring raise the dead would be useful as the cold rider charges won him the battle practically by turn 3 and this would allow me to tarpit and get my blood knights or GG into action.