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The list i ended up with is nothing like what i had in mind when i started. One thing i did want is to encorperate shadow magic in my list, so that aswell as buffing my own units up with augment spells like ASF an regen, than i could thenalso reduce the fighting power of enemy units, being that our basic troops are not so good when left to fend for themsleves.
I did want origionaly an all Wight list with necromancers, so Skeletons, GG, Black Knights, and a Black Coach just for kicks. But its far from what i ended up with. Please comment on the list following.
Vampire Lord = 444pts
Heavy Armour + Shield
Lvl2 Lore of Shadows
Red Fury (wounds caused grant more attacks)
Quick Blood (ASF, combined with my high Int will allow in most cases to reroll to hit)
Sword of Strife (+2 Attacks)
Talisman of Endurance (5+ward, wanted 4+ but lacked the points)
Potion of Strength (i dont have alot of high strength in my army, and figured 7 attacks at S8 even for a short burst would help out in a pinch)
Dragon Helm (+1 to my armour save for a total 3+, and gives a 2++ against flaming attacks)
Necromancer = 120pts
Lvl 2 Lore of Vampires
Master of the Dead (considering the starting size of my skeleton units i may swap this out for a dispel scroll)
Necromancer = 135pts
Lvl 2 Lore of Vampires
The Cursed Book (i see this as another opertunity to inflict hexes on enemy troops. If i could have taken lore of shadow on necormancers i dont think i would have bothered with a vampire lord)
Banshee = #5
(a bit expensive if someone kills it quick with a magic weapon, but im hoping it will be able to bypass alot of deffenses to score some easy kills. will support a skeleton unit i think)
40 Skeletons = 230pts
Hand weapons + Shields
40 Skeletons = 230pts
Spears + Shields (I just thought id give spears a go for a change)
50 Zombies = 160pts
(the zombies will be in horde formation, but not sure how to form up the skeletons)
Corpse Cart = #0pts
(looking to get ASF, with spare points i may buy load stone)
25 Grave Guard = 350pts
Banner of Barrows
(i am not entirely sure of a role for these guys yet, putting the VL with them seems a little to much overkill and too many points in one place, i may just leave them without a character. I have considerd taking a different unit to these, BLack Knights or Crypt Gheists, but thought i would give them a go first)
6 Vargheists = 27#pts
(i like the idea of running this unit 3x2, but i will loose out on 3 attacks and 3 possible stomp in this way. the larger unit size will keep them alive longer and keep them doing more damage but i might just punt for a unit of 3-4 if they dont do as well as i hope)
Mortis Engine = 240pts
(i was of 2 minds on ME. I wanted a Black Coach, and was even thinking taking Blood Knights, but with nothing above lvl2 i could realy do with the +2 to cast lore of vampires when in range. the regen will be apreciated along with the banshee howl, but i think i can see this unit being dropped in the long run).
Total = 2370pts (30pts left over)
As you can see im not overly convinced with units and the build of my list so am looking for any sugestions that can be offered up. I was thinking with the spare points maybe Beguile on my lord, and Flaming banner for the spear unit.
Let me know what you think.
Hey there! Looks good so far. However I think your lord needs to use lore of vamps as he will have to be your general. I've been debating dropping a necro for a vamp thrall in my list to get lore of shadows in there. Also if you really want to get your lord a better ward save, you could lose his sword and give him an extra hand weapon and give one of the necros the staff of damnation. He will still (usually) have +2 attacks and it will also benefit whole units.
Yes you are right. Lore of vampires on your general is a must so thats going to have to change.
Looks like that will shake up my list considerably as if i want to keep a VL as general to be able to bring some real combat effectivness, and squeeze in another vamp with shadows, points will have to be shead elsewhere. A Master Necromancer could do the lords raising job better and save points, but then i suffer in not having something to "bring the pain" in combat. I have looked at lore of death but it is no where close as helpfull as lore of shadow.
Thanks for spotting that, rep for you.
Also I think a vamp thrall would complement one of your units of skeles really well if you give them the screaming banner and the thrall fear incarnate and aura of dark majesty.
This would give you another unit that can win combats. And he doesnt even need to be in the front rank to benefit from the powers, or if you give him a decent weapon he can help. There really are a lot of options with our book eh? haha
This is a good list, I really dont see anything specific that could be wrong with it. One minor suggestion, and its more of a warning really, but the list packs a lot of big infantry blocks but doesnt have anything fast and expendable to kinda swoop in and counter small, fast flanking units. Be it reavers, yeomen or skirmishers. I know they dont really hurt, but if one of your blocks is locked in CC they can swoop in from a side which would screw with your combat res so Im a fan of including at least 1 or 2 of some kind of an expendable unit, be it wolves or bats or whatever. I dont think using gheists to kill something so meagre is making good use of their potential. Again this is just something that I have personally noticed when playing at my GW, especially against wood elves who are basically relying such small units.
Been working on my list a section at a time. Still tinkering with my Lord/Hero options but as for my Core i think im pretty much happy. Depending on what points i have left over i will bulk up a the skeletons with handweapon and shields but for now il cope with what i have come up with. Needed to spend 600pts at least (from a 2400pt list) so this is what i have for Core.
30 Skeletons = 205
(5 wide x 6 deep)
35 Skeletons = 205
(7 wide x 5 deep)
50 Zombies = 160
(10 wide x 5 deep)
10 Dire Wolves = 90
Total = 600pts
I also plan on taking in specail and rare;
25 Grave Guard = 380
Great Weapons (forgot cost last time)
Banner of Barrows
(at the minute 5 wide x 5 Deep, but may punt for 6 wide)
Corpse Cart = ##
Black Coach = ##
Total = 665 + 600 = 1265 (1135 remaining).
Im looking at 950ish on characters so looking at 150-200 pts left over, which in all likelyhood go on 4 vargheist. Once im set on which characters and how to equip them il have a beter idea of what im going to do.
I like how its well rounded, not just 600pts of skeletons! lol And I really like the 50 zombies, however, I would suggest that you run them 5 wide and 10 deep. Having 10 wide will maximise the attacks they are on the receiving end of.
absolutely no reason why skeleton warriors shouldnt have spears, that i can think of anyway... i think a horde of spear wielding skellies will be formidable, as they can fight 3 ranks deep on the charge, or 4 ranks deep otherwise. that being said, consider combining the 2 units of skellies into 1 horde and maybe playing around with the other points elsewhere. i like the 6 wide grave guard. being your most dangerous unit, maximum frontage is important. i wouldnt sacrifice 5 ranks for a 6 man front... but 30 grave guard might be effective, even if youve got 2 ranks doing essentially nothing.
also i definitely like the dire wolves, theyre fast and hard hitting, however i dont think the doom wolf is worth the points at all.
there will always be debat on whether spears are a good idea on the skeletons. Personally, I'm of the opposite opinion than the above poster. And extra 5-8 attacks at skeleton WS and S doesn't seem worth it to me. I'd rather change that in for a 6+ ward save granted by HW/S. skeletons aren't going to kill much, their main point is to survive long enough to get your other units around to the flank and hit them hard. That said, 6+ ward is the way to go. Its not much, but when you take say 20 wounds vs empire flaggellats, you'll only lose about 16. Thats 8 (4 + 4 from crumble) extra guys you get to keep that round.
Truth be told, its all a matter of prefrence. I'm just trying to present the other side of the argument.
ya know what... for some reason i was thinking that you still got a parry save with spears... so i must rescind my previous statement.
i even just checked the BRB and it clearly states "hand weapon and shield". sorry for that mistake
*edit* just thought of this as i hit post. im still all for spears if its a horde. otherwise definitely hw+shield