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Well, title says it all
We're trying out some different armies against the new emp. book in anticipation of an upcoming tourney using ETC-rules (most noticable for me is the max 40 models, 15 of chars on mount/black knights and max 4 ethereal units)
Talis. of preservation
Other tricksters shard
40 ghouls, with ghast
30 zombies with standard and musi.
30 zombies with standard and musi.
8 black knights with fc and banner of the barrows and lances
1 spirit host
1 spirit host
30 grave guards with FC and grave weapons
amounts to 2389pts unless I'm much mistaking
Now, the general idea is to advance swiftly with the knights and lord, with infantry marching along at a steady pace, while my etherals die horribly (again) to SCR, all the while tying up his heavy-hitters. I've been considering ditching the GG for a vargulf and some vargheists (spelling?) and probably beefing up the BK's to 13, to add some pressure early on, but I'm concerned that, at least, the vargheists will die horribly to hellblasters and the vargulf to a cannon, netting him some easy points. Any thoughts/ideas?
with empire stuff only been T3, now this if only from the two games that i have played empire but, skelly units in hoard have done the job for me. cheeky cast for vanhels dances here or vigor there and you are cutting down his units rapidly. it would also work on your zombobs but not as effective Ws really lets them down, hitting nearly everything on a +5.
I love your kit out on your Vamp, very similar to what i used to do with my lord in the old army book with the dreadlance, but for some reason i have not thought of it (maybe cuz iv been play 1k-1.5k games tops of late!) he puts a big target on that BK units head tho beef up the unit if you want it to survive, a trick i have implemented if i know a unit is a bullet magnet, cheeky unit of dead pups in front of them to get you light cover its a bit shameless an costs 40pt but there is not real way to get a decent ward on blacknights so -1 to hit is second best, also you can hunt war machines if they dont get shot up (but they always do!) they are good to block units and to force charge a frenzy one out of position this said, suppose your hosts fill this role if that's how you use them.
not a big vargeist fan they dont have the nuts to stand up to any amount of shooting and are way toooo hard to raise up i think they and hexwraiths should be the exception to the 1wound per cast and be allowed to have the lore attribute wound as well, they lack the numbers/toughness in the hexwraiths and tell me how a blood knight who is, more points than a vargeist is fully healed from one cast of IoN and the geist only gets 1/3 healed and more to the point has no save to combat its lack of healing, can this be fair!
there a only a few monsters worth running in competitive lists and vargulf are one of them, they are great, my issue is the stupid flame banner that everyone seems to take (particularly always the first unit that my gulf charges, once or twice i know that its a list tailoring cheat i smell, but the banner is often legitimately about also...lots)
have you found your hexW do anything, not really give them a real game running other than once (they died) but my theory hammer senses hates them.
for me one unit of three host is winning you can stand up to that magic missile and even not lose to SCR.... every round!, but there are that many wounds that you will hold the unit all game until the cavalry arrives excuse the pun!
An early vanhells for you main battle line would help what you really want is your nerco in your zombob bunker to have that spell but you cant guarantee it and its help full for your lord to have it too. As much as a glass hammer that he is Little mannfred works a treat a your second caster hes a lore master so you know whatever you need for you main battle group, if you need the magic missile you got it, falling behind your cav, vanhells baby. I seriously a lore master in support of your battle line in invaluable, its mannfred, lord mannfred or kemmler somewhere in my list at all times, consider him hes worth it....you do however lose your scroll if you do, not good.
the king is good, nice complement for the vamp for that second turn hitting power, to stop you getting bogged down. And is he there if your vamp don't fancy the challenge that turn (due to potions or buffs) or would better be used to break the unit... that vamp can seriously handle himself but steadfast may be a serious issue if your charge is not as effective as it should have been or you get flanked by a hard hitter (greatswords etc) (another reason for baby mannfred, get those lumps of core right up in the face first turn saturate with targets and then support the charge to stop your knight from getting isolated, you will easy break stuff in 1turn, your looking at CR of 16+ even if your cav dont pull its weight/cant attack and your units does nothing vs say 40 pike if they put the max amount of attacks vs the ghouls or zombies (whatever it is) and got lucky vs the knights they are looking at CR8-9 at least a 7 point sway and there not a chance they have three ranks any more its rout o'clock chase down if it suits with either unit or reform for your next charge) getting it balanced right with this book is hard, there are soo many units you want to take and they all have there weaknesses, one of the main reasons i run a support mage lore master he help bridge any gaps exposed.
List looks like fun to play, I only noticed two things-
One, if the Wight King is your BSB, he can't take any magical items.
Two, you say you're considering ditching the GG? If you do, I'd say go for the Mortis Engine, I think it would be a good investment.
Also, Genoraptor has a good point about the Spirit Hosts, I think they'd be a lot more effective in a group. Hope this stuff helps!
As I read it and i may be wrong, if you run a magical standard you cant run items but your are free to if you don't. Not got may book to hand to check tho its at work.
He can take magic items if he don't take magic banner and vice versa
exchanged the GG for more bk's (up to 13) and included a vargulf, which cost me 3 zombies, but hey. Let's just say it didn't go according to plan, partly due to me being rusty with vamps (blocked my own bk bus with wolves, forgot the banner of the barrows and so on), some bad luck (failed to kill a single archer with wolves on the charge, failed to cast a 12+ invo with the level 2 on 4 dice, 2 turns in a row, barely casting it on the 3rd turn, vargulf died on the charge to a captain on a peggie and so on, failing to roll above a 4 on a charge, no wounds from hexwraiths on 4 hits and so on), him being a bit lucky at critical points (IF on banishment on bk's, killed 9 knights and he lost a single halberdier to the miscast result, killing a vargie in a single turn and so on). That being said, he's the better ´player of us, I made some mistakes, he didn't really, apart from placing his warmachines a bit silly and I can't complain to much about losing. Oh, and also forgot that my lord has the other tricksters shard, so some silly mistakes on my part that adds up
Points learned: Halberdiers with hatred and other buffs are nasty. Give a horde of 'em reroll to hit, to wound and a 5+ ward and you're looking at a very scary unit. At the very least, dispel the reroll to wound. He brought the luminark and 3 channelers, making his magic phase quite potent when you only got a single scroll.
Force him to make choices about what units to help out with magic, ie attack on two fronts/flanks so he can't concentrate his magic, and if he does, he pays for it with the other flank. For my own army, I'd probably stick the knights on one flank and the ghouls on another. Hexwraiths did pretty good, killing of a unit of demigryphs (charged downhill for a +2cr, breaking them) but they're vulnerable to a decent, fast character with a magic weapon.
I'll post more later, when I got more time
That was my bad for the BSB thing, I had my mind on backwards. Also, sorry about the bad luck, though I'd love to hear more about the details!