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Hi there, i'm going back to my warhammer roots for this years Warhammer Doubles Tourney. I don't like to play too beardy, so my mate and i have gone for the following list. Tactics explained afterwards. (pleae note that the double tournament is 2x 750 point forces, so as we're both playing VC we are both required to field a wizard as the possible randomly choosen general). The specifications for this tournament is that the Army (the combined forces) must abide by the 1500 point army limitations (so no more than 3 heros in total, 3 spcial, each army must have 1 Core minimum etc)
Staff of Damnation
Book of Arkan
Strigoi Vampire Thrall
Summon Ghouls (to at least distract enemy artillery crew or wizard for a turn)
Zombies X19 (points left over from one of the forces meant 19 zombies)
Spirit Hosts x3
Grave Guard X20
Banner of the Barrows.
The plan is a flank movement towards the enemy, using the solid block of the GG and Zombies as a centre, raising into the zombies as we go. The Spirit host will act in one of three capacitys depending on the forces we face; 1) a missle screen for the GG 2) a Flank protector with 12" move, which can then hit the enemy flank once they are engaged with the centre troops...12 attacks and the enemy can't hurt them. 3) Go on Monster patrol. The ghouls have a similar job, the Vampire will be place in their midst protecting him from shooting, while the ghouls will advance up the flank (with T4, skirmishers and a unite strength of 20 it will take a lot of arrows to get these guys panicing), or they can act as a missle screen.
Once engage in combat the ghouls backed up by the vampire wil hit the enemy flank (as will the spirit host if they aren't already engaged). The Book will hopefully speed up the Spirit Host move, of even the Vampires, while the Staff (if successfull) will mean that all the undead with this big block of combat will be striking first and re-rolling misses.
Would really appreciate any comments/suggestions.
alright well Id make one of those ghoul units go BLAM !! (and disapear) and Id split the other one into to groups of 10....zombies are...meh I dont like em. but I guess they are alright Id make both units back down to 15 and put points elsewhere. also ditch the hosts. so in replacement for those units take
A unit of Black Knights.... and fell bats these two units will help you win greatly... even switch the strigoi with a wightlord and stick him with the GG or the BK hope this helps you
What you are we once were. What we are you will become!!!
Theanks for the suggestions.
The only thing stopping me from splitting the ghoul unit is that with a unit strength of 10, shooters would only need to kill three and they'd be panicing. Plus with a LD6, and Gen with only LD7 it's not looking good.
What do you think to replacing the Vamp with a Wight Lord battlestandard to reduce wounds lost and the ghouls can re-role any pschology test...?
Last time i played in a 1500 point tournament, one of my opponents played a Khorne army and took 3 Dragon Ogres and 4 Chaos Orges. If i took the Spirit Host out what would i have to fight them? Could anyone make suggestions. I'm just trying to prepare for all occasions, and in the 7 games of the tournament we will come up against monsters at some point.
I'm a bit confused. Is this list 750 points? Or is it supposed to be your list as well as your partner's?
As for the ghouls. Break them into smaller units. I like to run them in groups of nine so that three must die from missile fire before taking a panic test. Four groups of nine will cause much more havoc for your enemy than two large groups, which will be difficult to maneuver around many battlefields. More targets for him means that he'll have to divide his shooting and magic.
Standards are more important, IMO, for the zombies than musicians. They need all the help they can get for combat res.
I like the necromancers. Not enough people use the staff of damnation. It's really great once you get into combat.
I think wolves or bats would add a lot to the list, and I'd suggest dropping some ghouls to get them. Having a couple of long range units can really make things messy for the enemy.
I don't take grave guard in games less than 2000 pts, but that's just me.
Ok, with the comments added we've made some changes:
So here's the list we've come up with thus far:
- Necromancer, lvl 2, Staff of Damnation - 140
- Ghouls x15 -
- Ghouls x15 -
- Zombie x15, musician - 95 (I don't give zombies a banner in tournament games as if a heavy unit hits them and kills them off in the first turn of combat that's an extra 100VP, which is more than the units ocst in the first place. The zombies are not meant to win a combat, just hold things up for others to come alon.)
- Spirit Host x 3 -
- Fell Bats x4 - 80
Total - 750
- Necromancer, lvl 2, Book of Arkhan, Dispell Scroll.
- Wight Lord, Battle Standard, Heavy Armour, Banner of the Barrows.
- Zombies x16, musican - 101
- Grave Guard x27 (Musician, Champion)
Total - 747
The Plan: Ok, so the first thing you're thinking is 27 GG?! I know, i know, it's a lot, but from experience you have to make use of the fact that GG will be hitting on 3's with killing blow, and with a Champion and Wight lord in the front the GG front rank will have 10 attacks! So any regiment that they come up againt they should handle with relative ease. The Wight Lord will also be in this Unit, giving the GG a total of 7 guys at the front, less damage should the centre loose combat, and allowing the ghouls to re-role failed psychology tests. These, flanked on both sides by the Zombies will form the centre of the force.
Ok here's where it gets tricky. As this is a tournament list and we will be playing 7 games over two days we will have to be prepared for Combat/Magic and Shooty Armies. So here's a split tactics version:
Vs Combat Armies:
The GG flanked by the Zombies will move up the centre. If they get charged it's no biggy as the GG will have a 3+ save, and zombies...well they'd die even if they charge and they can get raised. If the GG get a chance to charge they'll try and do it with the Book of Arkhan, but the main idea is to let the enemy chrage.
The Ghouls will move up either flank and will attack any enemy skirmishers or small monster groups (2 poisened attack each ). Fell Bats will try to slow up enemy advance by flying behind them, take out single wizards or other easy targets. While the Spirits Hosts (normally i'd take 2, but then they'd just end up getting stuck in combat, and i want to outnumber so i can maybe make the enemy run away, o at least hurt them with the combined 12 attacks) will also be on monster patrol, but their primary target (with a 12" march move) will be enemy Cavalry and Chariots.
Meanwhile the Necromancers will sit back raising into the Zombies, and beefing the Spirits Hosts back up on wounds. The one with the Staff of Damnation will try to stay close to the centre, so that when the main combat is faught in the centre the staff can be released.
Hopefully this should break the back of the enemy.
Vs Shooty Armies:
The Fell Bats will endevour to engage enemy Artillery Crews, or at the very least distract shots from the main battle line.
The Centre will consist of the Spirit Hosts starting infront of the GG acting as a shield that can't get hurt by non magic weapons, while the Ghouls will sit infront of the zombies (as skirmishes with T4 and a battle standard for re-role, it'll take a lot for these guys to run.
Once close enough, the army will charge in very similar to Vs Combat army.
vs More magic armies i hope the 2 Necros can fight off the brunt of what the enemy can through at us.
EDIT: Some units' point costs removed. --DavidVC04
Last edited by DavidWC09; March 31st, 2006 at 03:03.
I like the addition of the fell bats. And I like big GG units. When the dice go south, they can die much too easily. Big numbers will give you real lasting power. PLus, I imagine in a 1500 pt game, there won't be many units out there to challenge them, at least not infantry units.
Still, I'd re-equip the GG. Passing up the sword of kings on the wight lord is tough for me to do. I'd drop him as a BSB and give the SoK and enchanted shield. Then I'd restore a regular standard bearer with the banner of the barrows. If your lord gets killed in a challenge, or just plain old killed, then you lost that all-important banner for combat res. A regular SB won't be lost as another troop will pick up the banner. And leaving my wight lord with only a 5+ save just seems hazardous.
So when is the tourney? I hope you'll post your results, if not a full blown battle report!
And remember to leave out point costs for naked units where a wee bit of division will give the point cost of each model. GW gets touchy about those sorts of things. Thanks.
Thanks for the comments!
I know, if i had the points to get SoK and give the GG a SB, but the problem is to make a GG SB i need to find the points for it from somewhere (16 - sorry if those points aren't allowed).
Also the Ghouls would no-longer get re-roles on psychology, and with Ld6 (7 if within 12" of Gen), it could turn very nasty very quickly.
So the question is, is it worth risking it?
The tournament is in the middle of June, but we're planning the theme the thing around a Chaos/Empire Undead theme - the corpses of the Storm Of Chaos, so it's gonna require some mega conversions. Hence why we are planning the list so far ahead.