500pnt Vampires vs 500pnt Empire - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Junior Member DarkElfTrinity's Avatar
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    500pnt Vampires vs 500pnt Empire

    I am having my 1st VC Battle against my mates Empire; it’s only a small point battle as only got a few hrs to play at the weekend.

    This is what I was thinking of fielding.

    10 Skeletons (including command) + Spears 115pnt
    10 Zombies (including command) + hand Weapons 75pnt
    5 Dire Wolves 50pnt
    2 Necromancers Lvl 1 130pnt
    1 Vampire Thrall (Blood Dragon) 98pnt
    - With Heavy Armour and Shield
    - Riding NM with barding

    Total = 468

    Just don’t know what magic items I should have though. Please help I am a NOOB!! :w00t:

    or any otehr suggestions

    Last edited by DarkElfTrinity; July 12th, 2007 at 14:22.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member 2000AD's Avatar
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    I'd say Staff of damnation. In this small a game, strike first and re-roll misses could easily turn the entire battle in one round. The power level of 4 is also useful as with limited dispel dice available you'll be forcing him to either dispel your invocations or your staff and not both (Unless he's as magic heavy as you). That said, strike first and re-roll misses is always useful.
    29 points left after that so I'd say it depends on your opponent. If he likes magic a dispel scroll might be useful. Sword of Might or Battle for the thrall if he's not a magic fan. If you can find 1 point somewhere I'd also be tempted to take the Ring of Night for the Necromancer which is your general.

    Also get the thrall off the horse and into a unit. Being on the horse means he can be shot and since he's on his own he's very vulnerable to crumbling from combat res.

    As a side note on magic I'd say that if you're planning on using Invocation to raise into the zombies or skellies then use 2 dice to cast power level 3 invocation with both necromancers. If you go with power level 3 then with 2 dice your almost certain to cast it and your opponent has to split his dispell dice between them (and any bound spells as well).
    If you go for power level 7 with both of them then on average you'll only get one of them off and then your opponent will be able to dedicate all his dispell dice to it.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Darkeagle8k's Avatar
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    29 points left after that so I'd say it depends on your opponent.
    Huh? He had 32 points spare and i dont think staff of damnation is that cheap

    Also get the thrall off the horse and into a unit. Being on the horse means he can be shot and since he's on his own he's very vulnerable to crumbling from combat res.
    Yupp, i agree.

    I would try first of all a summoning on 2 dice for a 3+, then a 7+ on the other 2 dice.

    All in all, i would try and get staff of damnation on a necromancer.

    -DE
    "The anatomy of your brain is more than your mind can handle. What?"

    Current Armies

    Vampire Counts - 3500 Points

    Orcs And Goblins - 2000 Points

  5. #4
    Senior Member 2000AD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeagle8k View Post
    Huh? He had 32 points spare and i dont think staff of damnation is that cheap
    *blink*
    Huh?
    Damn I think I need my eyes checked again

  6. #5
    Slaaneshi Battle Barge CO
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    I'd also drop the spears from the skeletons and give them light armor, instead.

  7. #6
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    so what's your plan to actually win the battle? sounds like fun having a couple necromancers in a 500pt battle, but they're not going to win the game for you. at best you might be able to raise like, i dunno, 10 skelles or zombies? your units are going to be out ranked, out outnumbered and out statted (yes its a word . . . superior statistics) in every combat. so unless your thrall goes berserk and racks up huge amounts of kills (unlikely with his equipment), you're not going to win any fights. plus you're facing empire, so they'l probly shoot you up nice and good before you get to combat.
    playing undead at low numbers is really tough, and i just cant see this army doing well against empire, even with their average leadership. rethink having 2 necromancers (or even any at all) at such a low points game.

  8. #7
    Junior Member DarkElfTrinity's Avatar
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    It came... it went

    and I got completed slaughtered!

    Well as it was my 1st battle with these i made many mistakes it took ages and I well got butchered.

    I fielded
    10 Skeletons + hand weapons + shield
    10 Zombies + hand Weapons
    5 Dire Wolves
    2 Necromancers Lvl 1
    1 with - Staff of Damnation + Invocation of Nehek (placed in the skeletons) my General
    1 with - Dispel Scroll + Curse of years

    1 Vampire Thrall (Blood Dragon) - With Heavy Armour and Shield
    - Honour of Death

    I got to use;
    Curse of years (brilliant) on out riders it hit them all on 1st go then on 2nd go just killed 1.
    Invocation of Neheki got 6 skeletons

    The out riders shot at my blood dragon he died!
    Then shot at my skeletons killing 5

    My Dire wolves got into close combat with swordsman and never touched em. They fought back killing 2 then the general (warrior Priest) killed 2 leaving 1 (
    So I was left with 1 lonley wolf!

    My Zombies didn’t get even close to getting into battle

    So! I think I will put a banshee in next time

  9. #8
    Member starshowerblade's Avatar
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    Don't get put off, the VC are usually underpowered at less than 2000 points. I think you probably should drop one necro and field one at lvl2 with ring of night. I would also field more zombies with the points. Hold off with the wolves for as long as you can. they will not win a fight against the front of a ranked unit.
    I think I would field
    14x zombie
    14x skeleton
    5x dire wolf
    necro lvl2
    thrall with hauberk and great weapon.

    but really without the power of a proper vampire you will really struggle, this is the core of how VC win is outnumbering, fear causing, brought back to life blocks of infantry the surround with wolves and other units of skele's /zombies.
    hope tihs helps!
    Arms are an instrument of evil, No measure for thoughtful men until there fail all other choice but sad acceptance of it.
    Sun-Tse : The art of war

  10. #9
    Member farmerralph's Avatar
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    Personally i think im smaller point battles the number of men is key. I would avoid having more than one character. Obviously a necromancer is a must and you could try giving him the cloak of mist and shadows before slapping him in a big unit to make him very hard to kill. A large unit of skellies would do well to support with a smaller unit of zombies, allowing you to raise more. Support with a small unit of dire wolves to help with the lack of punch that this army has - use them to charge flanks boosting your combat res. Alternativly they can go war machine hunting. If you have points spare a few ghouls could help but they wouldnt be a must. I wouldnt have thought that a banshee would be very effective in a small game due to high points cost but have never tried so could be wrong. Remeber, as other people have said undead do suffer in smaller battles but that can make victory ever sweeter!
    Everyone makes mistakes. mine was to leave her head in the fridge.

  11. #10
    Senior Member 2000AD's Avatar
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    I can pick out one major point where you went wrong:

    2 Necromancers Lvl 1
    1 with - Staff of Damnation + Invocation of Nehek (placed in the skeletons) my General
    1 with - Dispel Scroll + Curse of years
    You kept Curse of the Years for a lvl 1 necromancer instead of switching it for Invocation?
    Leaving aside the greater flexibility of Invocation (especially in small games) or that being abel to raise new troopsis one of the strengths of most undead armies, lets have a look at some basic probabilities.
    Curse of the Years has a casting value of 10 which for a lvl 1 caster means he'll only cast it (on average) 1 turn out of 6. So for 5 turns your wasting your power dice.
    On the other hand if you take Invocation (which you can always do) then you can stick to power level 3 and get it off almost all the time (only a miscast is a fail, and with 2 lvl 1 casters there's no reason not to use 2 dice to cast it), or even stick to power level 7 and get it off half the time.

    Kill 1/6 of a unit (with the possibility of more if your opponent doesn't dispel in his turn) or raise 6D6 (+6) skeletons (or zombies).

    Also, unless the outriders had a ward save you managed to use CoY wrong as if 'it hit them all on 1st go' there wouldn't be any left (and you'd be one of the luckiest dice rollers ever).

    Other things:
    - Outriders shooting your thrall indicates he was on his own out of a unit. Why?
    - Did your wolves flank charge or did they hit the front? You only need 3 wolves (they count as light cavalry so have unit strength of 2 per model) to get the flank charge bonus and they're high movement allows you to position them accordingly. Flank charging also minimises the number of attacks back as champions and characters are in the front rank, not the side.
    (also you wouldn't have had 1 wolf left, it would have crumbled)

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