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Now i've played several armies over the last 2 years and I settled on orcs because I really like them, their characters and fluff and I think they rock, but something that’s always been in the back of my mind was Vampire Counts. I've always liked Vampires and warewolves so I decided to take the plunge (with the help of a buddy whos knows vampire counts pretty well) and purchased around 1500 pts.
Now I wasn’t really keeping up with they but a friend at the store was telling me they were getting re-done next year and said there are certain things are getting re-done so I was picking up somethings that weren’t getting re-done (somethings I had to get) but I have a good foundation.
I have never had the chance to play against VC’s because only one or two players at my local GW play them, so as I was sitting down last night reading the armybook and playing with army builder for lists, and looking through some current lists in the Armylist section, i'm wondering, “What brings the pain”?
I know I can’t use the same mind set with VC’s that I did with orcs but but I know my basic troops (boyz, w.riders, s.riders etc) were hard and if near my general were hard as nails and brought the violence. Now in a VC list i'm looking at zombies, skeletons, and thinking “Hmmm… how the hell does this work”? What are going to be my main goals and objectives with this army, and will every game be an uphill battle with such low toughness models? I was thinking zombies would be cool, but good lord? ALWAYS strike last? How can that be good?!
I'm looking forward to playing VC’s VERY much, im not looking to become a god among men in my first game with them or anything crazy I was just hoping for some advice on what is a good game plan, what are some big no no's to try to avoid, what i should expect from my new VC army, how effective is VC magic, and what are my units to really break the enemies back, etc…
Thanks in advance…
By the way, here are some things I picked up yesterday,
2 boxes of zombies
1 box of 20 flagellants (to convert to zombies so ill have around 60+ zombies)
1 box of 10 flagellants (to convert to spirit hosts like in the picture in the armybook)
2 Blood Knights (one mounted)
2 Necros (one mounted)
3 blisters of Batswarms (from these blisters i can make like 9 batswarms)
Blister of fell bats
and some other things I can’t remember off the top of my head, but it was right at 1500 pts and that’s with no options added, plus a friend or 2 offered to give me some more zombies and skeletons. 8Y
The first no-no that comes to mind is Bat Swarms... Now I've practically never used them myself, but pretty much everyone I've ever heard from says they're not worth it, at least in 7th edition. Hopefully when the new armybook comes out, but don't hold your breath.
I guess the Blood Knights you mention are Blood Dragon Vampires, so there is your pain. VC is very character driven, and Blood Dragons bring pain with the best of them! A good and tried setup is a vampire in a big block of infantry, vampire kills and infantry try not to die too much (:rofl), and break the enemy with outnumbering fearcausing troops.
Also Necromancers are good, as you are right in your assesment of the core troops, they need a little backup in the form of raising with magic. But once you've got the big block of zombies (25+) with vampire, it's going to take a whole lot to shift them, as they will literally fight till the end. And even if you come up against something hard, they should last long enough to bring reinforcements in on the flanks, which is incidently a very good tactic with VC: let the infantry hold up the enemy and then flank them, preferably with something a little harder, like Black Knights or even the Black Coach (my favorite;Y).
So some things to get used to: no more charge reactions, core troops will very rarely kill anything so static CR is important, and you will probably need some magic to keep your army together. This is of course very generalized.
Hope this gets you started, but if you have any specific questions please let us know.
Big blocks of infantry always help, and the vampires themselves really bring on the pain. To understand how things will be think of this. How often do you break your opponents in the first round with orcs? I would say 80% of the time only the first round matters in any battle. Against undead this is not true, they will always stay until the last one of them is killed. Let that sink in for a little bit and consider how frightening that really is for the other player. As long as you have large blocks of infantry and enough flankers you will win on combat resolution alone 9 times out of 10. The other player knows that if they charge those zombies that they will not be able to break them, and their unit will be stuck in combat for your dire wolves or knights to flank them on your following turn, and be broken automatically. Think of how often many armies rely on breaking an opponent the first round, they will be denied their game plan. The pain doesn't come from kills, but from the very rules the undead units have.
Thanks guys you have answered sooo many questions.... i do have a few more though.
- I have a ton and I mean a ton of zombies, so i know they will be the tar pit but what are the important hammer units to bring?
- I have a few batswarms (like 3 - 6+) now ive heard from some people they aren't so great, but some people say you should always have a few for flanking and warmachine harassing, should I have batswarms for that or go for Felbats?
- With so many Zombies should I even worry about skel's?
- Black Knights, how many should i have? How durable are they? Can i raise/heal them?
- What should I have as a General? Necro, thrall? Which would be best
- Should I give my general a mount?
- What about the other heroes? On foot or Mount?
- What units should I put heroes in? In with zombies or skeletons’ or?
- Should each magic user has IoN?
- Im really confused by Spirit Hosts, are they more of a tarpit unit like zombies?
I’ve read though the armybook and I know I have to get on table experience with VC’s and get my own ideas on things but since i’m still in the building stage i’m just looking for more advice so I can plan things more accordingly. :party:
You can do fine with zombies, but be aware that rumours from the new armybook says that characters can't join zombies, and as frozencore said you should keep your characters with your main blocks. Not that you should rush out and by skeletons, just keep it in mind.
And I agree with frozencores answers. Good advice IMO.
I was reading through the codex and looking at our magic and abilities and i was happy with the bloodlines, but looking at the rumors OMG if they are true some are going to be amazing!!
i can't say i feel bad about them generasizing things only because i haven't had a chance to use them yet, but any loss of varity sucks!
how do you feel about some of the new rumored abilities? Do you feel we will be losing anything major?