Has our Magic been nerfed or improved? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member farmergiles65's Avatar
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    Has our Magic been nerfed or improved?

    On first glance of the new book I worry a bit about our magic capability.

    In the previous rules a 1500 point army could maser 10 odd power dice + items which was a good amount against most armies except for ultra dispel ones. In 2000 points a Vampire Count + 2 Necromancers + items allowed for a decent sized pool of dice and less risk of dispelling.

    In the new rules though I'm worried. To get anything above a Lvl 2 wizard costs a million points and even a Lvl 2 wizard base is restricted to a Lord or special character. Vampire heroes are only Lvl 1 wizards which is barely even worth a magic level and even our lovely Necromancers are only Lvl 1 now. With the amount of heroes you can take in a 1500 or 2000 point game I'm not sure we are that great at magic any more.

    Who's good at comparing these things, has our magic capability improved or got worse and how can we optimize magic in the Lord/Hero section of a typical 1500/2000 army?

    NB: - this is not a rant!


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  3. #2
    Now 17% more helpful gingerninja's Avatar
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    To be fair, I would actually say the Vampire count magic phase has got stronger.

    Yes the mages are now only lvl 1, but if you take vampiric powers and items, you can get a absurd amount of powerdice, and as you can cast the 3 necromancy spells more than once a phase, you can raise an obscene amount of zombies.

    In the end, it isn't less powerful, just different.

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  4. #3
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    no offense, but you're off your rocker. VC have the most powerful and disgusting magic phase in the game right now (we'll have to wait and see what the demons bring)

    All the characters are actually pretty cheap for what they do. All are casters, all can get tons more power dice. All can cast good spells on 1 die multiple times. VC can totally abuse the magic phase. Even in a low point game, you can dominate the magic phase and for those who worry about spending too much on magic and not having a killer combat hero - - who cares. He's still tough and still dishes out serious hits. Grave Guard are better, Black Knights rock. Ethereals are still tough and the wraiths are now nasty (who needs a banshee with str5 ethereals with 3x attacks?)

  5. #4
    Senior Member Nell2ThaIzzay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingerninja View Post
    To be fair, I would actually say the Vampire count magic phase has got stronger.

    Yes the mages are now only lvl 1, but if you take vampiric powers and items, you can get a absurd amount of powerdice, and as you can cast the 3 necromancy spells more than once a phase, you can raise an obscene amount of zombies.

    In the end, it isn't less powerful, just different.

    ninja out
    i would agree with this.

    vampires are only level 1, yes, but you can give them dark acolyte which makes them level 2, or master o the dark arts which makes them level 1 with 3 power dice. that means they can spam ion 3 times.

    with a vampire lord, and 2 vampire heroes, i actually don't feel that i have a weakened magic phase. not with the ability to spam some of our spells. spam ion with the lower level mages, and then finish off with some of the bigger spells from the lord.
    Warhammer Fantasy: Vampire Counts | Wood Elves | Chaos

  6. #5
    Senior Member farmergiles65's Avatar
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    Just needed it put into context! Some tinkering with the lists maybe to see what can be achieved. I admit I like the fact that ION is now a 4+ cast for a half decent amount of zombies.......now it just waits to be seen how well zombies do now. I like 4 points a model, but STR/T2.......

    Do people use Necromancers any more at Lvl 1 caster? I admit they are cheap but you're restricted on total heros in an army and the vampire heros can be much better casters. I like the fact that they are worth something now, the original thralls were rubbish. Even the Wight King looks nice now as well, but I prefer a hero who can cast spells.
    Last edited by farmergiles65; March 13th, 2008 at 19:38.

  7. #6
    Forward Kommander Blood_Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmergiles65 View Post
    Do people use Necromancers any more at Lvl 1 caster? I admit they are cheap but you're restricted on total heros in an army and the vampire heros can be much better casters. I like the fact that they are worth something now, the original thralls were rubbish. Even the Wight King looks nice now as well, but I prefer a hero who can cast spells.
    I'll be taking one, as he'll be a dedicated IoN spammer, and an arcane item caddy, most likely the Book of Arkhan or the Black Periapt. There just a nice addition that doesn't cost too much, and can carry 50 pts of magic goodness.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Nell2ThaIzzay's Avatar
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    overall, that's what i see necros as, cheap lvl 1 casters to use if you can't afford a vamp.

    the good thing about necros is that with them, you can GUARANTEE vanhels danse macabre if you like.
    Warhammer Fantasy: Vampire Counts | Wood Elves | Chaos

  9. #8
    Nox Archnomad's Avatar
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    Heck no!

    My magical Setup for 2000:

    Lord
    Level 3
    Forbidden Lore
    Dark Acolyte
    Avatar of Death
    Skull Staff
    Crown of the Damned

    Vampire
    Dark Acolyte
    Book of Arkhan

    Vampire
    Dark Acolyte
    Avatar of Death
    Hand of Nagash

    2 Corpse Carts

    Thats 4 Bound Spells, in addition to 10 Power Dice.

    Not at all, and seeing as i can choose whatever magic i like

    The two level 2's will most likely cast IoN, leaving the Lord 2 larger spells, which he will get off due to his staff

    Gimped? Not at all

    Im eager to try the 4 cleansing flare vampires too
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  10. #9
    Member Da Springy Nids's Avatar
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    As A larf I thought of using a lord with Skull Staff AND the staff of sorcery.

    +1 to cast from the lord and +2 to dispel.........

    Plus some vampire arcane powers for some stupid magic flying around......... 6 dice + 2 pool = 8 IoN per turn cast on a 3+!!!!

    Against ogres you are dispelling on........ 2+! That I'll force more than one dice per spell.

    HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
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  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Springy Nids View Post
    As A larf I thought of using a lord with Skull Staff AND the staff of sorcery.

    +1 to cast from the lord and +2 to dispel.........

    Plus some vampire arcane powers for some stupid magic flying around......... 6 dice + 2 pool = 8 IoN per turn cast on a 3+!!!!

    Against ogres you are dispelling on........ 2+! That I'll force more than one dice per spell.

    HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    The Skull Staff and the Staff of Sorcery are both arcane, so they'd have to be split among two characters.

    IMO, though, vampire summoning got a lot better. Sure, you cannot raise units as much (no skels, no summoning stuff from board edges), but it's *a lot* easier to raise units back / above starting wounds. It's pretty easy to have fighty vampires with the Lord of the Dead to simply raise and raise and raise skeletons on a 3+ (when you factor in the +1). They can cast the spell multiple times per phase, too, so you're going to drain magic defense fairly quickly when you're doing it 8-9 times a turn.

    You also now have the ability to heal other units... huge! Grave Guard are now worth taking, getting d6 back per invocation. Or d6+1 if a corpse cart is nearby. Or raising back a [high point] blood knight model? Awesome.

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