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Yet again I'm complaining about a new rules update i find cheesy, this time however its an entire codex (armybook) Before I hear how calling things cheesy is for "nubs" who can't beat it, il tell you I play vampires. Iv been playing them for a year and by the end of it still couldnt win a game to save my life. Then over night I became the fear of my group, I'm not talking about becoming competative I'm talking about solid vicotrys at least every game. I don't realy think I went from one end of the awsomeness spectrum to the other overnight. So the only conclusion I can come up with is the book got better. I play the same list give or take and use the same tactics, I'm playing against the same people (the ones who destroyed me in past) and now I cannot seem to loose. Things that catch me as particularly rediculous are the 16 power dice as well as 2 bound items i can use ever game (2k) as well as getting vampires. The dread lance and red fury combo which can easily down 8 heavy cavalry a turn. Or the etherial mounts on my black knights......... the list goes on and on. But please ignore that list and explain to me what I'm missing, I realy hope that some one is going to give me half a dozen good reasons I'm an idiot and wrong but I can't see a single one.
Vampires are indeed powerful. And maybe even over powered. I'll be honest though, my Tzeentch list can generate about 20 dice at 2000. Though tzeentch magic is not as cool as vampire magic.
Though to judge whats going on, I'd have to see your list, and then you're freinds lists. maybe it is as simple as the tactics you use didn't mesh with an aspect of the army that they do now. It could even be as simple as having dark night be ethereal.
May the Emperor forgive you, for his servants cannot.
I know alot of my friends with older army books have trouble battling the new ones but when the new ones battle it seems to make for good games. It will likely also be that all your friends need time to adjust to the new book, until they've gotten used to all the tricks and treats of the new Vampire armybook its unlikely that they will win, just watch and you'll see that you start beating them by less and less until it evens out.
People said exactly the same when the 'insane' always striking first HE came out. And now, they are viewed as better than they used to be, a bit competative, but nowhere near overpowered.
I am sure the same thing will happen with VC. Yes the list is a lot more powerful than it used to be, but it also appears to be difficult to make good lists because it is very easy to spend a hell of a lot of points on characters and not have enough for the rest of the army. Or if you go character light, you will miss out on magic. It may take a while for people to figure out the VC (both for and against them) but they will slip into the fairly powerful band of armies, not overpowered.
Normaly I'd agree with you all but this is not a case of now im competative, this is a case of I'm rediculously hard to beat. I'm not that strong of a player I don't think. And Its not as if were improving on a week army, they were powerfull in the last edition, the best player I know win/loss wise played them.
Actuly the book is out at least here in Canada, and people are shouting cheese (not exagerating) The problem I have is they were competative, then didnt loose a thing that mattered, sure theres little bits and pieces but theres nothing that makes up for their new magic phase for example.
I don't think they're overpowered, it's just the usual GW practice of giving a re-done army a seemingly unfair advantage. As the previous poster said, HE certainly aren't invincible despite an incredibly powerful army wide special rule. VC are only over powered compared to lists that haven't been changed in 2-3 years.
I think the main thing that has changed is that VC now have some units that can actually hurt the enemy while they waste their time mowing down your zombies.
1. Crumbling when your general dies. Toned down but still an absolute killer if it happens early on.
2. As mentioned above, army list creation is tricky.
3. Rank and file more expensive and less effective (in combat) than EVERY other army.
I say fair, although often it isn't. Fear is awesome! A unit of 5 anythings with 1 attack and 6 to hit stands a 40% chance of not even hitting at all. Never mind wound rolls or saves.
Perhaps we are a bit overpowered...