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An important question i think. I'm pretty sure that Ghouls are a lot better than Skeletons. Fluff wise, i'd go for skeletons, even model wise, though the ghoul models are very very nice. Think the idea of skeletons warriors appeals to me after watching "Jason and the Argonauts" years and years back.
Answer in the poll what you think gaming wise, but please post your opinions on background or what models you prefer.
Last edited by DoctorDogmeat; March 21st, 2008 at 02:01.
From TK experience, skellie saves dont mean much, and they cannot kill. And with 2A, poisoned, T4, now raisable, and moveable pre game... I have to go with ghouls. Strigoi rocks hard now!
Exactly, i don't think my skeletons do anything but die where as ghouls can actually do something.
Never-the-less skeletons are ok, in a game today, I managed to boost the squad size from 10 to about 36 today (led by a vampire with tomb blade).
Later on the unit was charged by a 6 dragon prince's also containing a HE Lord, battle standard bearer (MAGIC BANNER +D6 COMBAT RES!) and a warbanner in there too. Eventually a white lion unit (anti-ghoul) killed a unit of ghouls to the left of the skeletons and flanked the skeletons.
By the time the game had ended it was only the Vampire that stood with one wound left. The skeletons took up a major role of tying down the enemies best units. While my two grave guard units took out the rest of the army, one of which eventually saved the wounded vampire by flanking the remain dragon princes, who then ran away, along with the white lions.
I voted for skeletons simply because they can take full command and have a 25pt magic banner. Two banners come to mind for them and they are warbanner and banner of endless nightmare, so as long as you have 25+ models in the unit for endless nightmare they do the same thing. Two units of skeletons with these banners form a pretty solid core for my army, in most cases giving me a static CR of 6, add a vampire to each unit and they can be a tough nut to crack.
I'm just disappointed that ghouls aren't skirmishers anymore, they don't look right ranked up and I must say I'm not a fan of the new models either.
BEN DIESEL FTW!!!
The pre-game march move ghouls can get is great, but there's a drawback. They will now be well ahead of any non-skeletons in your army. That's fine for things that move fast (Varghulfs, black/blood knights, etc), but means grave guard & any skels/zombies you might have get left behind. So if you're going to go ghouls, you gotta go all the way.
In terms of actual effectiveness, the ability to get a banner in skeletons shouldn't be discounted. Lets compare some numbers against your basic trooper: ws-3, t-3, 4+ save from hw, la, shield.
- Ghouls: 11 attacks, rounding up, of which 6 will hit and 2 will be poison. So you've got 4 normal hits of which 2 will wound, doing 4 wounds total = 2 get past saves.
- Skeletons: 6 attacks, 3 hits. Rounding up will be 2 wounds = 1 past saves. Then add 1 for the banner.
So on average, the skeletons rounded up a bit more than ghouls, but in most situations will wind up with around the same combat result in terms of killing potential.
When getting attacked, lets say by your average ws-3, str-3 opponent w/a champ (6 attacks), it goes about as follows:
- Against ghouls: 3 hits, 1 wound with no saves.
- Against skeletons: 4 hits, 2 wounds with 1 saved.
ws-4, str-4 opponent w/a champ:
- Against ghouls: 4 hits, 2 wounds with no saves.
- Against skeletons: 4 hits, lets round up to 3 wounds, with one being saved = 2.
Ghouls will be slightly better against lower weapon skill but higher strength opponents, but once the weapon skill gets above 3 (or is low strength), they're about the same in terms of damage taken.
So really, there's two advantages to the ghouls:
- The potential to get lucky and deal a lot of wounds because of the sheer number of attacks
- The pre-game march move
But there's one big disadvantage:
- Outpacing the slower parts of your army with the pre-game march move
Also factor in that a lot of armies rely on the first couple of turns to summon their core choices up to acceptable sizes before reaching the enemy. In that situation, you don't want to use the march move to get closer because you need more time to summon.
And don't forget the banner the skeletons can take that makes them count as double unit strength. Much easier to get the outnumbered-by-fear-causer result!
Either way, not a bad choice, but stick with one or the other so that you only need one vampiric power to raise all your core above starting strength and not two.
If you're thinking of even stronger opponents, Ghouls are a lot better than skeletons against s5 opponents and against higher toughness opponents if you're going for kills.
Personally, I think I'll be taking two units of 20-30 skeletons and a unit of 20 or so ghouls as my core choices.
40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
Current Rep: 1337
But (in my experience at least) no one even tries to dispel the book of arkhan or dance in the first turn, since they figure you are so far away it doesn't matter. They focus on stopping magic missiles and invocation. So you should be able to boost your lines forward to catch up with the ghouls.Originally Posted by moob
I voted ghouls. With the impressive 2 attacks each and heightened toughness, plus poison, I really think they are an excellent unit for their points. They should do a great job getting some kills in, and really don't need full command when they are killing like that.
Though I would have to say fluffwise I prefer skellies as the main core unit, and model wise I'm not a big fan of the new ghouls either. It will be difficult deciding what to take.
i voted ghouls, they have every thing i want in a core choice and T4
but the thing is that the cannibals and old dry bones ar better verses different opponents. ghouls are going to munch through the opponents low armored elite units. while skeletons want to fight most every outer core unit in the game.
i have been running one block of 20 ghouls 7 wide with a vampire standard barer with the stroigoi banner, pure nastiness.
the ghouls really like to hit first, every loss they suffer significantly hurts their killing potential, i do not like ghoul kin as much as most people, though it i do recognize its worth.
skeletons are the tar pit zombies wish they where, and with the magic banners they are golden. the musician also is a nice bonus.
my point is that they are not to be considered for the same roles, they need serpent distinct targets to come into their own.
personally i like skeletons but i love ghouls.