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  1. #1
    Slaaneshi Battle Barge CO
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    To max characters or not max characters?

    A bit of a VC conundrum. For our army to do well, we need characters. They do most of our melee damage, they repair our wounded and perform other support functions. The other thing that VC armies need to be successful is to outnumber opponents.. but sometimes it's a little hard to do this when half of any list is characters. What's the solution?

    Should you take the maximum number of characters allowed? If so, should you trick them out with options to make them more effective, but more expensive? Is there a happy middle here?

    I'd like to see what everyone thinks about this.

    "Is Archon Braigh-Dee going to have to choke a Wych?

    Courtesy of Wicky: D.C.S.S.E.P.C.I.C.B.

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  3. #2
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    I'm trying to craft a list with just three characters. A maxed out lord, a wight king BSB, and a lvl 2 vamp. The problem for me is more about getting in all the magicky goodies I want, like the book of arkhan, helm of commandment, extra magic, some armor, etc. But I'm determined to get by with less characters, especially since we can generate such good magic with single characters.
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  4. #3
    Senior Member DoctorDogmeat's Avatar
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    120 (x4)

    I wouldn't go for 4 characters. A level 4 and a level 2 should be enough, i used a list like that even for spaming IoN. I can't help having 3 characters, its fun. 4 is fine but i wouldn't go that far. I love vampire magic though so i can see why everyone wants 4 magic heavy vampires.

    I have the same problem with magic items, if i take too many, then the vampires are too weak and end up dying because if it, also if you want a scroll carrier, or lots of dispel scrolls you either have to have a necromancer or a space them out between you're vampires.

    I like my army to charge and die fighting. I don't like them to retreat or fall back, it all basically means i have no option other than to take an unbrakable army whether vampire counts, tomb kings, daemons, etc.

  5. #4
    I've had enough! timk1111's Avatar
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    I like to think of it more as 'how many points to spend on characters' rather than just how many.

    For example, if you have one lord and 3 heros at 2k, but 2 of them are Necromancers, I dont see a problem.

    1/3 of the army spent on characters seems to be decent formula to go by, never going over 1/2. My zombie Dragon list comes in at 980 odd points in Chars, just under 1/2 at 2k, but not counting the Dragon (his VP's are counted for seperatley, after all) bI'm back down to about a third.

    So max out if you can fit it, otherwise I think 2 characters doing something very well, is better than 4 that do something averagely.

    Plus, in the end, you want to fit some sort of army into your list as well

    Tim


  6. #5
    Suffer not the Unclean InquisitorAffe's Avatar
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    381 (x8)

    I've been shooting for 1/3 of my lists spent on Characters. Half is definitely too much for me. 2 Wound T4 Vampires are not that hard to kill, it's a simple fact. Loading up on them doesn't make sense to me. I like a defined role for my hero and minimum pts to accomplish it. I've been happy with a 'balanced' lord, Mannfred the Acolyte, and a Wight King BSB.

  7. #6
    Acting XO of Tanith 1st MadLarkin's Avatar
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    192 (x4)

    haha i just played a 2K list where 1208 pts were in the characters =P (although that was including the corpse cart mount)

    i had count mannfred, wight king bsb of drakenhoff, lvl 2 vamp and a necro on corpse cart.

    rest of my army was tiny, 2 units of skellies w/15 each a unit of 10 ghouls 15 grave guard and 5 black knights. i did fairly well but still lost due to the fickle nature of magic but it was fun all the same.

    i think about 40% or less is a good level to spend on characters although i love count mannfred both rules and fluff wise so i tend to spend too much in smaller games to get him.

  8. #7
    I've had enough! timk1111's Avatar
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    205 (x7)

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLarkin View Post
    haha i just played a 2K list where 1208 pts were in the characters =P (although that was including the corpse cart mount)

    i had count mannfred, wight king bsb of drakenhoff, lvl 2 vamp and a necro on corpse cart.

    rest of my army was tiny, 2 units of skellies w/15 each a unit of 10 ghouls 15 grave guard and 5 black knights. i did fairly well but still lost due to the fickle nature of magic but it was fun all the same.

    i think about 40% or less is a good level to spend on characters although i love count mannfred both rules and fluff wise so i tend to spend too much in smaller games to get him.

    Yeah, Manfred is an expensive bugger, and comes with only a puny armour save, 3+ at best. Not something I'd soend 500-600 points for.

    InquisitorAffe, you make a very good point. Hero level characters don't much protection in this list, save for a couple of suits of armour or mounting up. If up against even S5 or more, they'll drop quickly.

    I think my Caster Lord at 2k is something like 440 points, nearly maxed on everything. 2+ armour, 4+ ward, level 4 mage blah blah. He's well protected compared to Manred, and and even though he may have fewer spells, generates the same amount of PD (thats assuming Manfred has the Periapt). Then I chuck in one necro....and thats it. Still gives me 10 powerdice, 3 bound spells, and plenty of undead units in the army. Thats what I'm all about.

    So, In my two lists characters use up as follow:

    Magic Heavy - 1x Lord, 1x Necro @ 530 points.

    Dragon Army - 1x Lord on Dragon, 1x Necro, 1x Vampire @ 980 points

    Seems strange an army of 2 characters has more Powerdice than an army of 4. My Magic Heavier list get 10 PD and 3 bounds. My Dragon army gets 7 PD and 2 Bounds...

    There's my official figures for the sake of this thread

    Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to play them yet....still assembling them! Soooo many zombies......(why such good magic?! )

    Tim

    Tim
    Last edited by timk1111; May 11th, 2008 at 08:06.


  9. #8
    Slaaneshi Battle Barge CO
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    127 (x5)

    I'm not actually trying to go magic heavy. I do like to use Mannfred, but only because I think he's pretty good... even for the large number of points that you pay for him.

    The things I want that I always find myself giving up are bound items and some of the synergistic combinations, like Ghoulkin/Summon Ghouls and the Helm of Commandment. As far as Vampires are concerned, I don't go overboard on magical upgrades, but I consider it mandatory that my Vamps have an armor save of no worse than +4 and for most of them, the extra protection and mobility of a mount, generally a nightmare or a hellsteed. If I'm going to pay 100+ points for them, I think that it's worth a few more to make them relatively durable (to protect the combat and magical power they provide) and make sure that they're mobile enough to get where I want them to be.

    How does everyone feel about the second Lord at 3000 pts? Also, I'd like to hear what different people consider to be enough casting dice and dispel dice to be generally dominant at various point levels... let's say 1000, 2000 and 3000.
    "Is Archon Braigh-Dee going to have to choke a Wych?

    Courtesy of Wicky: D.C.S.S.E.P.C.I.C.B.

  10. #9
    Senior Member DoctorDogmeat's Avatar
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    120 (x4)

    I think i spend between 800 and 900 on characters, but i love all my characters, its really sad to see them die. Its not like loosing a bretonnian paladin or elf noble, vampires are so much better.

  11. #10
    Acting XO of Tanith 1st MadLarkin's Avatar
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    192 (x4)

    i know what ou mean. i'm kind of spoiled with my character choices. vampires are so much better than any other character basic.

    i know i pay a lot of pts for mannfred but i just love the fluff and the sword of unholy power is nice too (although i rarely use it)

    but one of my favorite vamp builds, especially for smaller armies, is a vamp with dark acolyte and lord of the dead, nightshroud, flayed hauberk and black periapt. i like him because he's balanced and i like the ASF no matter what (that's right high elves, even you strike after him). then the sword of battle allows him to more often than not kill those in base to base contact with him (assuming he's not charged by knights or other heavily armored guy) and then the skellies next to him strike before the those who are attacking him as well.

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