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ok so on the banshees defense they have ghostly howl (but how many wounds is that really actually gonna do against a high leadership army? prob not alot, sometimes maybe a burst sometimes maybe none) and there ethereal pretty awsome!!!!
vargulf so he has 4 wounds stregth and toughness of 5!! 5 attacks!!! and wait.... regenerate!!! my goodness!!! and hatred
so i mean yea vargulf seems like the better idea for the 175 points apposed to 50 points a banshee
but i really wanted to know what everyone elts has to say
and i wonder when a good time to use banshees would be?
(this is for a 2000 point game, 1 rare slot has been taken by 5 blood knight so 1 of those is gonna get the other slot)
thanks for everyones time!
There is no real answer to this question. It depends on the rest of your army, and the tactics you employ. They are two different units, with different strenghts and weaknesses.
In my latest list I use both, at 2000 points. I'm thinking basicly the Varghulf will run down a flank, supported by wolves, while the Wraiths hang closer to my core infantry on the other flank.
If your other rare choice is Blood Knights, the Varghulf might be good, covering the knights and making sure they don't get held up too much. I haven't tried the knights myself though, so can't say for sure.
I think I have to go with Skilett on this one, running blood knights I would probably choose the Varghulf because it makes a much better support unit for your cavalry.
Not only does it depend on your tactics it also depends on your opponent. Vargulfs would die to massed fire that wraiths would normally ignore. However a unit of wraiths will die if they get hit by a single magic missile. I find that a unit of wraiths can do more damage over the course of the game than a Vargulf can (banshee howl + 3 S5 attacks each) if you can use them properly. A Vargulf is faster and has the vampire special rule, which are both plus sides to him. All in all I tend to switch which rare choices I use from game to game, they are all good and it will keep your opponents guessing.
I wouldn't take ethereal things in a balanced list, just too much magical things, well its a risk anyway, especially with the daemons about. Damn daemons.
I can't see myself running wraiths and a banshee because of the unit cost. I love the unit and its fluff, but it's way too expensive. You need 5 just to get a flank or rear bonus, and then you're talking about the same points as a unit of blood knights.
I will probably buy a varghulf model at some point, though the list I'm working on doesnt' utilize any rare slots.
I run both a Vargulf and a unit of 5 wraiths in my 2000 pt list - Vargulf is a fast mover who is great for running off skirmishers and war machines. Wraiths are great for those core units that don't have characters or magic items around - plus add in the combination of moving through cover and/or Vanheling them into units = great!
I've had pretty good success with the Wraiths - more so than the Vargulf but that might just be the style of my army.
Note on previous thread - wraiths are skirmishers so they can't negate rank bonuses (don't understand why but it sucks).
You can't deny ranks, no, but if you're US5+, you can get the +1/+2 for flank/rear.
The +1 bonus for the side or rear for 5 models isn't usually something I shoot for. They are pretty fast movement 6 skirmishers, which means they can easily get on the side of units to flank charge when a big block of zombies/skeletons hits from the front. The +1 bonus is pretty much a moot point when you only have to win by 1. All those wraiths are adding a few kills that otherwise your big blocks wouldn't get, which pushes you over the CR edge. They do work...are they better than a vargulf? Well I'm not sure, they perform a different role.... ahh it needs more testing.
Same goes when punching against heavy cavalry, or even monsters, and most enemy skirmishers are not very good combat troops, so don't benefit from magical assistance.
And remember that every magic missile that is being used against the wraiths and banshees in your army isn't being combined with normal shooting against your big blocks, which I have found the only way to blat VC armies. COncentrated shooting is great when augemented by spells, but fielding a unit which cannot be hit by one or the oether will mean a dispersal of firepower.
Last edited by kithre; May 29th, 2008 at 09:32.