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Hallo fellow vampires.
Since the new army book was released I have played about 20 times (Mainly against Orc´s) and only lost 3 times. So I´m Starting to feel that the VC are maybe a little overpowered.
What is your score?
What army´s has been a challenge to you?
I hope that I just haven´t played agains the right opponents, cause this is starting to kill the fun.
Greetings Fredrik von Carstein
My vamp's have done very well - against pretty much everything except for khorne fighty vamps with the banner of sundering. Those just seem to have my number.
My win/loss is actually fairly even, I mainly get draws. My main opponents are dwarfs, & High Elves (both good on magic def, HE also good offence). Slaughtered lizzies, got slaughtered by HE, otherwise everygames been pretty close. I play a fairly balanced list (not too magic heavy) agianst good opponents who are the same (although the HE player is a little powergaming).
Orcs&Goblins are extremely challenging to play against armies that are heavy on the Psychology. There's a lot that goes on in an OnG army with the relative positions of different types of units, managing your flee routes and panic potential. As much as the army looks like it just walks straight across the board and starts hitting things, you need some very sophisticated systems to manage animosity and psychology if you want to handle more competitive armies.
My little rambling aside, no VC are not overpowered at all compared to the new Daemons and Dark Elves books. At the rate they're cranking them out lately (and the fact that they finally figured out maybe they don't need a full model line revamp to write a new book) more armies should be getting 'harder' at a steady clip as well.
The design studio seems to have decided to go with a substantial bump in offensive output (magic or combat) individual units or models can muster in the newer books. So there will be certain types of lists, particularly from older books, that it does seem just don't stand a chance against you no matter what happens. This is just the reality of a highly open ended gaming system with a 'rolling' design cycle.
Thanks for your reply´s. I hope that you will make a lot of fair victories then and that the talking about us being overpowered is just a phase
Greetings from Fredrik von Carstien
VC wouldn't be overpowered were it not for one thing, the way IoN works now. Changing it so that it could be cast on a 3+ and also could be cast over and over and over and over was kind of rediculous. My 1k list had the ability to cast that single spell 6 times a turn, not to mention the bound spells I had. (One "combat" vampire with LotD and one "caster" vampire with LotD)
As it is, even compared to Dark Elves and Daemons, yes, VC are slightly overpowered when a single Vampire Lord can have the ability to cast IoN 8 times in one turn while also not having to worry about miscast since its all with one dice.
A change to IoN is all that is needed to bring VC back into line, such as giving it a slightly harder casting roll so as to make it more of a gamble to cast with one dice, or making it give more results, but not letting it be cast over and over again.
Well, normally I am one of those players that says there is no such thing as cheese and all that jazz, that you just need to find a way to win since any army can win against any other army. I just feel strongly about this point because when I played VC it began to seriously feel like that single spell (IoN) is what was winning my games for me and I didn't like it.
Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; August 5th, 2008 at 18:33.
"I am the architect of fate!"
BEN DIESEL FTW!!!
My friend's VC ar at 9 wins from 10 games, most against me. The one loss was when I took an army specifically designed to combat VC, I had a HE dragon with prince with the null stone (no magic/magic items within 6" work) and got him in range of the general, a necro and 2 corpse carts leaving his magic pretty much powerless while I destroyed the general's unit. I don't know how to beat them normally with balanced lists. I am still building units and mostly focusing on HE so haven't had a game with the new VC yet, but I am keen to try.
The problem, as stated, is the insane amount of magic. invocation and dance unlimited times is too much, and when invocation can cast on a 3+ and raise skellies/ghouls beyond their starting size for less than 20 points, it is a bit overpowered. I also think the ability to raise d6 grave guard with invocation is too much, GG are very tough models and should not be raised so easily. Several times I have whittled their unit down to below half strength, got a flank charge and been in a good position to destroy the unit and the vampire, then he spams invocation and raises them back to full strength and I lose. It should raise d3 GG, like it does for TK Tomb Guard.
I'm not sure about the amount of spells. I think perhaps one per magic level, so a level 3 vampire could cast invocation 3 times a turn and so on. That would make them use more dice on each spell to make sure it worked so it would be harder to dispel though.Daemons can easily have a very overpowered list, especially with screamers, but overall aren't really that great and seem a bit boring. Dark Elves... Its hard to tell at this stage. They certainly have some overpowered things, the Hydra (when compared to the Varghulf for the same points) is rediculously underpriced. Assassins can be made insanely good and easily deal with any characters in the game. Black Guard seem very powerful for their reduced points. But overall they don't seem overpowered, some stuff is still a bit weak.Originally Posted by InquisitorAffe
The statement that VC are not overpowered relative to the other new books should not be read as an assertion that the new books are obviously better in everyway and woe is us VC is only at best an average army again =). It can still be good and even better in some areas without rating an 'overpowered.'
I've been playing with VC since the really early days of the joint undead book, and i must say that the current VC book is probably one of the most nicely balenced versions of the undead I have seen.
The previous version of the vampire needed a huge overhaul, especially in terms of the magic phase. I would have prefered the old system of necromancy to return where level 1 could recast on a 4+ level 2 on a 3+ and so on but it would make things complicated.
The defensive vampire build army with a casting lord in a grave guard bunker is a very hard to beat list, no doubt about it but there are other lists which are just as unpleasent.
My current win/loss ratio is very impressive, however most of the games have come down to clever tactics and (usually) some good dice for me - but thats why I play the game!
Arms are an instrument of evil, No measure for thoughtful men until there fail all other choice but sad acceptance of it.
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