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  1. #1
    Member eckyl's Avatar
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    Flying vampire amongst black knights

    I've recently been putting together a vampire counts army at 1000pt bracket. One of the units in the army was a vampire lead unit of 5 black knights on a flank with a unit of dire wolves and fell bats in support. As the vampire can increase there number beyond starting strength with summon creatures of the night they've worked well together.

    But only just recently did I notice the rules for black knights being able to move through difficult terrain without penalty and since I have a vampire in this unit restricting them from doing so it seemed like waste of an ability. So I began to think of different combo's I could run and still gain the benefit the only other thing I could think of was to remove the vampire and stick a banner with the unit allowing them and the dire wolves to march as if a vampire was with them but loose the ability to refresh their casualties.

    I didn't like this idea and after a thoroughly reading the rulebook I came up with the idea of giving him the fly ability and sticking him on a nightmare. I can't find anywhere where this combo is restricted and although in the rulebook it makes mention of characters on flying mounts being unable to join friendly units characters themselves with the fly ability are able too.

    The way I have it pictured in my mind is although the unit will not be able to charge through difficult terrain they will be able to break apart the turn before (and with cleaver placement still avoid shooting) then have the black knights charge through terrain and the vampire fly over it. Thus granting a unit that would miss out with some increased tactical options.

    The unit and it's supporting units will look like this on one flank.

    Vampire w/ flying horror + Summon creatures of the night + the book of arkhan + the balefire spike + nightmare + General
    198pts

    5x black knights w/ standard bearer + royal standard of strigos

    5x dire wolves

    3x fell bats

    Last edited by eckyl; September 14th, 2008 at 19:27. Reason: forgot the black knights lol
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  3. #2
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    I don't think there's anything to support the notion that the vampire's ability to fly will transfer to the nightmare. And because you can't dismount, I think you'd be stuck on the horse and unable to use the ability. Wasted points, IMO.
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    Member eckyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidVC04 View Post
    I don't think there's anything to support the notion that the vampire's ability to fly will transfer to the nightmare. And because you can't dismount, I think you'd be stuck on the horse and unable to use the ability. Wasted points, IMO.
    As far as I'm aware only rules denying other rules or abilities are ever really relevant when coming up with weird new combo's, not having to find a piece of text for every scenario where games workshop supports it. This is games workshop where talking about, there so well known for there meticulous rule construction (end sarcasm). In addition abilities that usually confer the flight move to a model specify that the model must be on foot, Where in this case it specifically makes no mention of this rule, so I'd have to disagree.

    And as far as fluff is concerned in the description of the ability it says the vampire either fly through the air with magic or wings etc. I see no reason why he can't drag that stupid horse into the air with him using magic.

    Also I've thought of a few questions regarding this unit

    1) Would a unit of black knights be able to march through a forest while a character in the unit chooses to fly the same distance marched. I'm thinking no, but I can't find anywhere where it says that a unit and all characters in it must use the same type of movement in the movement phase. Only that they must move at the same speed, but I'm sure its there somewhere.

    2) And alternative to this would just be to break the unit up in the movement phase and march the black knights through a sold forest. Then fly the vampire over it and position him in a way that he can't then be shot at. Would give a nasty surprise to the enemy.
    Last edited by eckyl; September 14th, 2008 at 19:53.
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    Member starshowerblade's Avatar
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    I think that the ability to confer flight probably does extend to the mount, although it seems a bit strange.
    The unit will not be able to move through terrain however, as the vampires nightmare does not have etheral movement.
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    Member Vallessian's Avatar
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    I believe that the reason the hellstead exists is to give a vampire the option of a winged stead.

  7. #6
    Son of LO strewart's Avatar
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    Look on page 3 of the VC FAQ that was released on GW website, on the right side first question under Vampirc Powers...

    Can't quote it because their pdf has copy protection so can't copy paste, but it says yes the model can still fly (Vamp with flying horror and nightmare) but will lose its 360 degree LOS so they think its a bad idea.

    Anyway, is there anything wrong with attaching a flying vampire to a unit of black knights without giving him a nightmare? I am pretty sure that in 7th ed there is nothing stopping different sized bases joining in a unit, as it bred the idea of putting mounted characters in infantry units for the extra AS, all it means is the unit moves at the slowest speed, which is fine since the vamp flies.
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    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
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    But the flying move doesn't replace the vamps movement does it? It is used instead, but in situations where the 'Flying Move' can't be used it reverts back to the default M characteristic - i.e. grounded fliers, fliers in woods etc. So therefore wouldn't the lowest movement value of the unit then be the standard M rate of the Vampire on foot and not the Black Knights movement rate?
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    Son of LO strewart's Avatar
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    I don't see why it wouldn't be able to fly when attached to a unit.. I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be a rule against it. But flying models being attached to units is very rare anyway so it would be quite a grey area. I know flying monstrous mounts can't join units, which was probably to stop any of these questions, but the vamp with flying horror isn't on a monstrous mount.
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    Lord Admiral kithre's Avatar
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    Why not give the vampire the talisman of the Lycni, have him run with but not as part of, the unit of Black Knights, but as he is an IC on foot, he can ignore difficult terrain penalties just like the Black Knights can?

  11. #10
    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
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    Strewart -
    'm not saying I'm right by any means, but consider this:
    A Flying move doesn't change the movement characteristic of a model. Instead it allows the model to make a 20" flying move instead of their normal movement value.
    When a model joins a unit that unit can only move as far as the minimum movement value of the slowest member.
    By all rights this would be the movement value of the Vampire, because the fly move is a special move, and doesn't replace the models Movement Characteristic, the slowest movement value would be that of the vampire on foot?
    Yeah, it is a grey area, but a good debate could be made out of it.
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