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just wondering how you have been handling those greater demons. I know they are pretty point intensive but boy are they killy, and then there's the rest of the army to worry about.
Good question, not an easy one to answer.
The best thing to do is to stall them for the whole game with a fat tarpit unit. A big unit of zombies is perfect for this as they are easiest to raise back. If you are more offensivly minded, a unit of bloodknight's on the charge have a chance against anything, especially when lead by a vampire or even a vampire lord. If you want to be extravagant and really go for it with your vampire Lord, try this:
Vampire Lord: Dread Knight, Frost Blade, Red Fury, Infinite Hatred. Put him in a unit of 4 Bloodknights with the Flag of Blood Keep and see how they fare.
I'd also have at least two corpse carts with balefire to try to contain the magic, but get any herald wizards dead asap, even if it means sacraficing a few units. You need to remember that Greater Daemons are great, but are a lot of points, so need to get into the fray at some point to make them back.
Hope some of this helps!
For me the Keeper of secrets is the biggest headache, I cannot think of what to do with the damned thing.
The thirster is a big bad killing machine, but that is all it is - if you can tarpit it, then is spends the whole game killing seven zombies a turn! nice and straight forward
The great unclean one is a bit of a problem as it can kill hordes of chaps in close combat with the "every time it takes a wound all models in base contact take a T test or lose wounds." rule, it also is T6 and 10 wounds meaning your best bet is good old fahioned combat res cos it only has four attacks.
The lord of change is just a magic firing artillary piece, scroll and dispell what you can and try to tarpit it down with bats or wolves, then it should go down once in close combat.
The keeper however is just a total nightmare for the undead, especially with the lowering leadership effects of other things in the slannesh mono list.
My conclusion is that you are best off trying to combat res them to death. You could use two huge units of zombies on the unclean one, or the keeper, if you can catch him. The bats are invaluable as they can charge 20" in any direction!
Arms are an instrument of evil, No measure for thoughtful men until there fail all other choice but sad acceptance of it.
Sun-Tse : The art of war
How big do yo run your bat units? i've been keeping mine to 3 models, and maybe a bloodpower to bring them above starting strength.
My problem with tarpit is the number of wounds followed by crumbling, so if you lose some 14 models/turn you'll have to spend a lot of magic to bring those guys back. if you manage to get them back (not dispelled)
thanks for the input so far...if anyone has had success, please share.
Depending on what list I'm playing varies what I do. If it's my magic list then I make a unit of zombies right in front of my generals grave guard, so he cant be charged by a BT/Keeper etc and killed. Then just tarpit it all game. Try raising zombies to Marchblock. This is exceptionally nasty to a GUO.
If it's my Host of the Blook Keep, I charge the things with my lord on a dragon. Only thing thats stopped him so far was the Obsidian Armour, so instead my KotBK take the thirster. But he has taken a LoC, KoS and just didnt bother with the GUO.
[This assumes that the blood knights charge the thirster, which is *HIGHLY* unlikely, but lets go with it]
You should get 4 blood knights in the combat zone. For your sake, lets hope that none of them are a champion model, else you go into a challenge and get completely hosed.
4 blood knights = 12 attacks -> 6 hits -> 4 wounds. They deny the regular armor but ward saves 1.333. 2.667 wounds caused.
Horses = 8 attacks -> 2.667 hits -> 4/9 wounds. After regular save (modified to 4+ now) and ward, it's 4/27 wounds caused. or .148 wounds caused.
In the end, you should cause ~3 wounds on average. Then he swings back with 7 attacks at strength 7 with rerolls to hit.
8/9 will hit for 6.222 hits, causing 5.185 wounds at -4 modifier. Your 2+ becomes a 6+, with him causing 4.321 wounds on average.
So he'll do on average an extra wound than you, and he'll now have mass vs. your banner. So he wins by 1. If your BSB is nearby, you then die to his next combat attacks... if not, you're destroyed on your own charge. Having the BSB in the unit doesn't help, either, since i've always seen them with obsidian armor for the denying magic weapon plus armor save, then the immortal fury for rerolls, and the fire blade for str 7 flaming attacks.
Should he charge you, you'll completely explode barring some extreme luck. If you have a unit champ and get sucked into a challenge, you'll be maybe cause a wound and he'll then kill the champ and get 3 overkill on you. Then obliterate any survivors in the next combat phase.
Tar pit or Combat lord are the only 2 ways of dealing with a Greater Daemon.
If your good at summoning you could raise some zombies and dance them into the Daemon. If you have a large block of zombies or skeletons/ghouls you can try and dance them into combat but really its the Daemons choice on what he gets into combat with.
With Zombies keep raising as much as possible, hope he does not flank your zombies.
Skeletons/ghouls same as above except issue challenges with your champions as much as possible.
A combat lord in unit can stand up and beat even a blood thirster. Nightshroud and crown of the damned means your striking first and have a 4+ ward against his attacks back. Use a cursed book for a turn hurts him a bit further. After exchanging hits you now have combat res to push instability tests and hope he rolls high.
The Daemons biggest advantage over undead is they don't flee and have more combat effective fast units then we do and so can control what gets charged where.
Fell Bats and Direwolves will not stand up to anything in the daemon army. Their only purpose is to get flank charges and screening.
Also consider that, realistically, a raised zombie unit needs to be 20 strong to ensure that it is not wipped out in one turn anyway, and considering the keeper, BT or LoC should be charging on turn two latest, thats a lot of raising to get through in turn one, when scrolls and dispel dice are still plentiful.
Yes a Zombie Unit needs to be quite big to survive a Blood thirster.
7 wounds - 3 ranks +1 outnumber means a crumble of 3... assuming you can get 20 zombies
A starting unit of 20 with standard means you only loose by 2 but then you have an investment in trying to keep that unit alive so the enemy does not get the standard.
If there is not enough room for the model to charge it can not charge... same as if you were on foot.