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I got a 2000pt battle against a reasonable player tonight testing out his new Warriors of Chaos (the new books). Now I've NEVER played them in any shape or form so all I know is that everything in their book is rock solid, rock hard and probably immune to psychology because GW seems content to make our Fear as rubbish as possible.
I tend to be in favour of magic over combat but I'm expecting that he will have some rock solid characters over magic munchkins. I don't use Ghouls or flyers and my only rare available to me is the Black Coach. I got plenty of skeletons/zombies and some black knights/graveguard and freedom to try any form of character option.
What tips and cool combos can people advise me on facing this tough army? He knows how my VC works by now so hes got the advantage, I'd like to even the odds a little bit!
Hm, I only did a cursory read-through, but not everything is immune to psych, I know that mark of slaanesh isn't, I think it just makes them immune to panic??
One thing to watch out for is that jerk who comes in on any board edge with a unit of marauders. He's like the fantasy version of Snikrot.
As a Malal General, I feel no regret in helping to expose some weaknesses in his battle lines. I haven't worked much with VC, so I can't help so much with that.
Mark of Slannesh is the cheapest mark you can give a unit, and he can give it to most of his units, and it makes him immune to panic, fear, and terror. It is NOT immune to psych, so he can still flee if he wants. Also be on the lookout for the rapturous standard somewhere in the army, which will create an absolutely rock solid unit. Basically the unit counts as rolling insane courage whenever they roll doubles or a 1 on either die.
A huge thing to look out for will be chaos knights, which will most likely be sporting frenzy (or possibly the banner of rage, which is frenzy that they can't lose). This means they are putting out a LOT of high strength attacks. Don't assume they are like normal knights either, where if you make it through their charge, you can bog them down and win by static. They are just as hard in the ensuing rounds of combat with ensorcelled weapons at 5 str. Your best bet with these will probably be to just speed bump them and try to deny their points, or redirect them to hit them in the flank if at all possible. A head on fight with them will be trouble. If you have blood knights and can manage to get the charge on them, you will probably win it, but they are looking to get that same charge, so be careful.
The magic phase can be very dangerous, though you will face no shooting (MAYBE a hellcannon, which isn't too much to worry about). If your opponent usually doesn't take magic, then you should be able to rule him in that phase. You will REALLY need to stack the odds of combat in your favor, because basically all the chaos units are capable of dealing out some hurt. On the bright side, they are expensive, so you should outnumber him by a fear amount.
Be afraid of his heroes. Be very afraid of his heroes. These guys are close combat beasts with rock hard armor shells. If you are likely to run a varghulf or combatty vamp, he might bring the glaive as a magic weapon. Once he hits you with it, after that round of combat, you are S2 T2 for the rest of the game, very harsh. Of course, it's only good vs multi-wounds.
Ethereal won't help you much, as the units you want to bog down (heroes, chaos knights) will have magic weapons. They might be helpful against chosen or chaos warriors, but these units are already slow.
Killing blow is your best friend. The basic core infantry, chaos warriors, will have a 2+ armor save with shields. Your opponent will not be able to field many of them (at 16+pts/model), and grave guard with killing blow will be very scary for him.
Wulfrik is the character that can come in from any table edge, and he brings with him a unit of marauders (basic fodder troops, which can be fairly solid in combat either offensively with mark of khorne and GWs for 2 attacks at S5, or defensively with LA/HW/Shld for a 4+ save with MoN which gives you -1 WS in CC and -1 to hit them with shooting).
That's a rundown of some of the things to think about, but really you'll just need to play him to see what kind of army he runs, it can vary quite a bit. If you have any specific questions, let us know. Otherwise, good luck, and have fun!
Well with all chaos books it really depends on what he takes as anything with a mark you would play differently depending on the mark he took.
make sure he identifies what marks are on which units.
Khorne = Frenzy
Nurgle = -1 to hit in CC and ranged
Tzeentch = 6+ ward save
Slanesh = Immune to fear, terror and panic
His wardogs and maruder horsemen will be used to flank and bait
His maruders on foot are the same cost of zombies before upgrades but are way better. so not worth much VP
Warriors of Chaos are expensive, his Chosen cost a little more but get a free roll on the Eye of gods.
His Knights are very deadly and have magic weapons so keep your ethereal away from them.
Sorcerers are good in combat and have access to some nice equipment.
Combat lords are better than your vampire lord, his exalted hero is the same a your lord -1wound
Don't get into combat with the Hell cannon.
Its pretty hard to give any other advice with out knowing his list. Let us know how the battle goes and we can give more advice.
Last edited by apbevan; November 14th, 2008 at 17:21.
Nurgle is actually -1 to hit with shooting, -1 WS in close combat. There is a difference.
I played against the new WoC last Saturday. Let me tell you, those knights hurt! I eventually beat the unit, but it took two blocks of skeletons to do it. One vampire was left on his own after his unit disappeared under the onslaught, but I won combat in time to spare him.
The game was a draw, but those guys can still dish out the big hurt.
WoC are nasty when they hit and rely on combat which we do as well, their units are normally small and lack static CR but make up for it with the damage they cause, you really want to get on their flank which you can do by killing off their hounds and marauder horseman asap but it isn't as easy as it sounds. A unit of fell bats is a must purely to march block as you want to build up your army for as long as you can in preparation for when they hit you, also use this time to take out their support units and try to isolate their armies units as it will mean our poor troops will be able to manage them even if it takes a while. Blood Knights are very good against them as they can take on anything they throw at you apart from a kitted out lord, and the only ranged damage you have to worry about is spells that can be stopped and hellcannons which will hopefully scatter. If not it hurts but there's not much you can do about that except use the terrain to your advantage.
BEN DIESEL FTW!!!
lol seems i got off easy when i faced off against new chaos,
so far i have had two wins, against nurgle and tzeentch.
I think the most scary thing they have is, make your lord auto miscast on a failed casting and then adjust your roll. There really isnt much you can do about that and it is really annoying.
Tzeentch magic is scary, especially that spell that can make squads just disappear.
The fact that their characters have to challenge can really work against them if you tool your vampires correctly. Perhaps try taking beguile?
"Playing it safe is the most popular way to fail." - Elliott Smith.
Considering that you probably won't be facing much, if any missile fire, it's in your best interests to delay the joining of combat as long as possible while you increase the size of your skeleton blocks.
Set up so that he has a difficult time getting to you and choose the ground for your combats.
Protect your flanks! In most cases, you are going to have to win through combat res and attrition.. since his guys fight better than yours, you need to make sure that you always have a full rank bonus. Skeleton units should have the War Banner and the Banner that allows you to have +4 from ranks.
How many fully ranked units of Grave Guard can you field?
Save your Black Knights for flank charges.. no vampires in these units so that they can still move ethereally.
A Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings and rebound amulet might actually intimidate his characters.
As already mentioned, Bats to march block.
Use Wolves and summoned zombies to redirect him. See if you can get his frenzied units running in the wrong direction.
With the possible exception of Blood Knights (maybe) I wouldn't use any Rare units. You need Wights and lots of Skeletons.
Use the maximum number of characters. You're in no danger of being outnumbered.
"Is Archon Braigh-Dee going to have to choke a Wych?
Courtesy of Wicky: D.C.S.S.E.P.C.I.C.B.
I don't know much about VC excpet from the book, but you will want to rely on Combat res as usual to beat them. Unless you face slannesh, then you can't autobreak and in which case your best bet is to tie the units up so they dont go elsewhere killing your mroe valueable units. This is especially true of chaos knights. Though they cause fear too, plus They will probably kill enough of your units to negate any rank/unit strength bonus you have and therefore they will probably win combat, meaning you take additional wounds. It a real possibility that you won't be able to revive enough models to make the difference. Your vampires should probably be geared for close combat so they can accept challenges. Though, a Khorne lord on juggernaut in my opinion can face down a CC tooled vampire.
Chaos magic is just insane. Tzeentch espeically. I dont think Slannesh can do much as undead are immune to psycology but they have spells that do damage. Nurgle is iffy. I fidn it odd that disease based spells could damage undead. Tzeentch is perhaops the worst. their wizards get +1 to cast. I dont know if the Bale transmografacation works on undead since it invovles a ldr test, but it doesnt say there are exceptions. The magic missle spell can be really bad on a good roll. And you got the Infernal gateway. Even if they dont roll 11 or 12 for S, they can still bombard a unit with multiple hits at pretty hight strenght. I don't think it takes that high a S to kill skeles and Zombies.
If a Million Guardsmen die, that's a statistic. If one marine dies, that's a tragedy.