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Hey. I run a standard skeleton/casty army and was wondering what the best way to handle a Daemon army is. My average opponents bring a balanced list consisting of a unit of Plaguebearers, Bloodletters, Horrors, 7 flamers, 2 Beasts of Nurgle, 7 flesh hounds, 12 furies, a Herald on Jugg w/ Bloodletters, and a Tzeentch caster hero w/ Horrors. He brings a bsb in the Plaguebearers w/ the -2 cast banner.
My army has 2 units of 15 skeles that I raise up later.
A unit of 25 GG w/ GW
5 Dire Wolves
Corpse Cart w/ Lodestone
5 Black Knights
A banshee and 2 wraiths.
Vamp Lord w/ Lev 3 Magic, Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte, Avatar of Death, Skullstaff & Crown of the Damned. (With GG)
Vamp w/ Dark Acolyte & Lord of the Dead, Helm of Commandment, Black Periapt (With a Skeleton unit)
Necromancer w/ Macabre, Book of Arkahn on the Corpsecart w/ Skeleton unit
Usually the battle begins with him getting his hounds and furies on flanks/behind my army, flamers inside some trees, but 2 inches near edge so he can fire out on me, and the other 3 units and Beasts going straight at me.
His hounds rape my Black Knights, dire wolves, and Varghulf. They don't stand a chance. Though the Vargulf and Black Knights tend to do better when they can both get in combat together on the charge.
My Banshee and wraiths tend to just die, but I try to keep them near the GG so they don't get stuck in combat and can at least Banshee Scream. My biggest problem is the Plaguebearers as I usually just cant find a way around them. And I hardly ever get Miasma or Macabre off because he saves dispel dice for these spells alone. How should I go about beating him?
Remember his banner of sundering (-2 to a lore) does not affect your Invocation spell.
Try this list out:
Vampire Lord - In Grave Guard
Lvl 3 plus Dark Acolyte, Forbidden Lore, Avatar of Death (or Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte and Avatar of Death)
Skull Staff, Crown of the Damned
Vampire Hero - In Skeletons
Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Flayed Hauberk
Vampire Hero - In Ghouls
Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, Nightshroud
23 Grave Guard, 6 wide w/FC, Great Weapons and Banner of the Barrows
19 Skeletons w/FC, Warbanner
19 Ghouls w/Crypt Ghast
20 Zombies w/Standard
5 Black Knights w/FC, Barding, Standard of Strigos
Total = 1984 or 1999
With 12 PD you should be able to out cast his 5 DD. Your lord should look at raising the unit of Zombies to a bigger size on the first turn or two. The other 2 vampires should look at raising their own units to a larger size.
With Forbidden Lore you now have an additional lore to cast spells from(Light) that won't be affected by the -2 banner
Keep all your units together except the varghulf and black knights who should go up a flank together. Keep the zombies on the flank of the Grave Guard as its your lord that is best able to raise them.
Your Varghulf and or Black Knights should have no problems flushing out his Flamers from the trees, nor killing anything else if they both charge together.
Flesh hounds are tough, fight them with a tarpit unit of ghouls, skeletons or zombies to beat them with combat res. Your Black Knights should do ok as well because of their 2+ As and Killing Blow.
If your having problems with Regen and your Killing blow is not coming through for you Try the Hellfire Banner on your unit of Grave Guard or Black Knights.
Last edited by apbevan; November 20th, 2008 at 19:08.
Another thing to not over look is Flamers have flaming attacks, hence good bye Vargulf Regenation.
Cover. If the Flamers are Hiding in the trees you should be able to impose your units in between them and the varghulf for most turns.
I tried once, but it ended up being a barrage by his flamers and Horrors. I guess if I castled away from towers etc my ethereals and Varghulf would be safe so I'll give it a try and raise the hell out of my skeleton units so he can't break them. And if possible create a horde of zombies in front of his flamers to cause them to move or shoot them. Switching the corpse cart to balefire may protect me a little too from his casting.
Against Daemons, I either wouldn't take ethereals or I'd hide them. Yours aren't large enough to claim a quarter, so I'd keep the buggers hidden. Why not drop them altogether and add more skeletons to one of the two existing units?
I'd run the Varghulf but I'd make an effort to deploy him after the flamers. He's too strong a unit to hide. Just keep him away from those dudes.
I usually go after flamers hard. They can cause a crapload of damage.
How does the corpsecart do?
I really like apbevan's version. Do you have the models to run it?
Just as a demon player I wanted to note that cheap xx point banner that grants the unit flamming attacks is just made for fighting plaugebearers. You may not even have to waste it on the a unit of GG but a large unit of skellies with a vamp with the helm of command should be able knock a Plaugebeaer unit down to size pretty quick.
Also, don't bother with the dance spell against them though as if they have a herald, and the player is worth their dice, then they will also have noxious vapors on the herald denying you the ASF
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Ah thats actually a great idea. I will try nuking the flamers, tarpitting the hounds with a skellie unit, and throwing my GG at the Bloodletters and hopefully end up with a 1 turn victory. I'll keep the Varg on the opposite side of the flamers and most likely throw him at the Horrors. At least to keep them tied up, and maybe even wipe them out. The skeleton's strength will be hard to wound the plaguebearers with, but I can outlast him I think, and it gives my GG room to operate. I'll consider replacing the Wraiths/Banshee with a Coach or Varg or even add another Black Knight unit. Varg is prolly more solid tho for a bigger march vicinity. Thanks =)