Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
When invocation is used on Dire Wolves and Fellbats, do they only regain 1 wound? As fast cavalry, I would assume Dire Wolves do, but I'm under the impression Fellbats can regains up to six wounds.
I only ask because I was able to tie up a HE dragonlord with over 30 Fellbats last night for a couple of turns, which just seemed unreasonable.
You are right, Fellbats are infantry with the "fly" special rule, but still infantry.
5000p. High Elves
As I understand it, herman1004 answer is correct based upon the classification of Fell Bats as Infantry in the back of the VC book. Additionally, this question has been answered by the folks at Direwolf; and though they have been occasionally wrong, they are most often correct. Having said that, I would like to see an official answer from GW in their errata, and unless I missed it, they did not adress the question with the most recent errata update. I wonder if they are still contemplating the question. One main problem that I have a problem with, and this is not specific to the Fell Bats, but rather GW's army book writing process in general in that there is little to no conformity between teh rear reference sheets in the army book. For example, the back of the VC book splits the units into Characters, Infantry, Cavalry, Monsters, Chariots, and Mounts; the Empire book lists Lords, Heroes, Troops, and Mounts; the WE and HE books list Lords, Heroes, Core, Special, Rare, and Steeds (Mount); and the DoC book lists them aplhabeticallyi under Summary. This is what provides the problem for me in that I wonder if GW has regretted the classification system in the VC book and the perhaps unintentional consequences of listing Bat Swarms and Fell Bats as Infantry, which discussing rules questions asides, is completely ridiculous in terms of Fluff. And thus why they have not answered the question on official errata, as they may be testing both options in house before answering officially.
From a Mathematics standpoint the point value difference between rezzing various VC units. The following assumes that a Lvl 4 Vampire Lord will cast Invocation his 4 dice, plus the additional 2 pool on the unit in question over a longterm average:
W/ Lord of the Dead on Skellies (+1 to cast):
6 dice x 2/3 = 4 succesful 3.5 Skellies per succesful cast = 14 Skellies
Max Skellies cost = 9 pts/model Total Points Rezzed = 126
W/ Summon Ghouls on Ghouls (+1 to cast):
6 dice x 2/3 = 4 succesful 3.5 Ghouls per succesful cast = 14 Ghouls
Max Ghouls cost = 8 pts/model Total Poitns Rezzed = 112
On Blood Knights:
6 dice x 1/2 = 3 succesful 1 Blood Knight per succesful cast = 3 Blood Knights
Blood Knight Cost (assuming a unit of 5, one of the dead could be one of the command models) so without command models Total Points Rezzed = 165
If one of the command models is dead (average the cost of Mus, Champ, and Stand) the Total Points Rezzed = 55 + 55 + 55 + 16.666 = 181.666 = 182
6 dice x 1/2 = 3 succesful 7.5 Zombies per succesful cast = 22.5 Zombies
Zombie Cost = 4 pts/model Total Poitns Rezzed = 90
On Grave Guard:
6 dice x 1/2 =3 succesful 3.5 Guard per succesful cast = 10.5 Grave Guard
Max Grave Guard Cost = 13 pts/model Total Points Rezzed = 136.5
W/ Summon Creatures of the Night of Fell Bats (+1 to cast):
6 dice x 2/3 = 4 succesful 3.5 Wounds of Fell Bats per succesful cast=14 Wounds=7 Bats
Fell Bat cost = 20 pts per model Total Points Rezzed = 140
So in terms of points value the lowest to highest of the ones above is:
So, Fell Bats are not heads and tails above other units in terms of total point cost rezzed but there are some caveats to this: the other top contendors, Grave Guard and Blood Knights cannont be rezzed above starting numbers ever so you can only regain points that have already been lost at that point in the battle. Theoretically with a Lord and three vampire heroes each having Summon CotN and an additional magic level and a black periapt and Master of the Black Arts on the Lord you would have access to 15 dice.
These 15 dice would translate to on average (without taking into account enemy dispell dice and srolls) to about 350 points worth of Bats per turn. Over 6 turns, within a 2000 point army you could theoretically create at least 2100 points worth of Bats. Flying, Fear causing, skirmishing, 2 attack, 2 wound, Immune to Psych models, that dont count for any VP's if your opponent kills them.
Anyway, from a basic point value the Bats are not obviously broken, but I think that their abilities and use on the battlefield combined with the ability to rez d6 is in some cases overpowered and in my opinion is not RAI by the designers (at least I would not design it that way) though is currently CLEARLY RAW and therefore legal. Ideally, I would like GW to resovle this issue asap one way or the other, I think there are benefits to each argument but as is the case with most arguments of this type only GW's intervention will truly solve it for all involved. (I draw example to the contention on whetehr or not Pit of Shades auto-killed a Steamtank and the direwolf absolute contention that Treeman could not stand and shoot, which according to GW they now can.)
Just hoping GW finally resovles this asap.