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ok ive restarted this hobby, origionally a dwarf and undead player 2nd and 3rd ed. ive come back too the game using empire and got thourorgly depressed too see everyone in my local store playing chaos warriors or deamons. both of which i think are broken armies.
now ive finally got my empire army able too counteract these armies via exploding pope im comming back too my undead and dwarf roots.
got 2k of vamps and am disheartened too seehow poorly my lovely summoning army performed. 20 graveguard with great wepons under the helm of commandment from my lord charged a unit of 20 warriors of chaos with a sorceror in and didnt even bounce, they just crumpled. that aint right surely too nagash thats never whats supposed too happen. and since when did frenzy get so hard as too ignore fear altogether? damn banner of rage.
it ok i said too myself ive got a unit of 30 skellies for a road block too give me some breatihing space, oh no 1 turn of knights charging and i lost the lot, i know they poor infantry but 30 cant hold for a turn?
and my particula pain in the rarse is the lord on a juggernaught, a 0+ armour save and 6+ attacks at str 7 made mincemeat of my black knights.
too all of the above i want some counter measures and safeguards so you guys who have had more pleasent experiences playing against the false gods tell me your secrets.
and i have a dislike of 7th ed vc book purely because i can no longer have count micheal von jackson and his thriller zombies.
rofl'd, im a 6th edition player, can u explain what thats about?count micheal von jackson and his thriller zombies
Anyway I've only had one game with WoC so far, but I have studied their army list in great detail and some strats. and I got 2 words for ya, BS. And now with the 7th edition vampires, hero lv vampire can't stand up to hero lv WoC champion and same for lord lv. =/
I can't believe that 30 skeletons didn't hold, and bad luck on the GG, but knights into the lord was a mistake.
enough about the bad, lets talk about combating these tin cans which move like elves (ie the initiative and ws) and furious like animals (2 attacks)
I figured there are 2 ways and they depend on your lord.
One, go for the most expansive fighting vampire possible, for vampire powers go for a mixture of Infinite hatred, red fury, the equipment ones, and beguile (lol) magic item should at least include an Armour or a nice weapon and a ward save (crown of the damned com into mind), and finally put him on a Abyssal Terror if not a Dragon. This "TANK" setup gives you a chance against WoC characters and ensures you will will win combat against troops...those knights come in mind.
Two, which I have seen work and is promoted by most players here in the forum is a magic heavy army, aka lv 4 vampire lord. Take Lore of metal and I have seen how good the first spell works on those tin cans .
Some tips on knights, have them charge columns(if no character is available in the unit...zombies comes to ind) make sure you have small ranks, 3 at best, 4 is ok.
Just let the knights close in to its target unit and the turn before it charges reduce frontage of your unit, (make SURE that you are pointing directly at the knights unless you want a flank charged massacre) This forces them to attack with only 2 or 3 models at best. so a unit of 30 skeletons will definitely survive.
If a character is in the unit, equip him with the Nightshroud. Let him challenge you and watch his disbelief as you got 3 attack (with killing blow if its a wight king) on his champion first and he only use base strength on you.
So that addresses knights, for the lord, use either one of the lord extreme set ups above. other equipment is up to you.
Now for the frenzied troop that you charged with GG, remember wights have ONE attack each, and they have 3! you do the math. GG are a good unit in Warhammer standards and will hold there own against most. But not against these fighting machines WoC, you need a character in the unit like you need one for skeletons in other battles.
Finally consider spirit hosts, mine unit of 3 held up both a unit of 25 marauders and a unit of 20 "standard" warriors for more than half of the game.
Hope I helped, don't give up just because GW want everyone to collect WoC or DoC cheers
Last edited by Project9; February 6th, 2009 at 17:20.
count micheal von jackson and his thriller zombies.
vamp, book of archon and knowing zaise more zombies and van hals in a unit of 60+ zombies, if you dont hit there army in turn one then summat went wrong. i loved when van hals could be repeat casted.
DANCE, BOOGEY WONDERLAND!!!!
No countermeasures and safeguards until people are using the shift key.
Seriously, though, please do capitalize the start of sentences. Makes things much more readable and keeps LO a quality site. We have readers around the world and adhering to the basics of English makes communication much easier.
That aside, I was punked pretty hard by chaos last night. 2999, and chosen are disgusting. Especially when they go to a 1+ armor save thanks to a Warshrine. I'm eager to see what ideas people have for this topic, too.
Hi! This is my first post on this site. I've been looking to start up fantasy again after almost a decades break after a colleague at work admited he dabbled with dwarfs and empire. I've been looking to collect VC For a while and have pondered the new chaos mortals problem.
I Like the idea of the abyssal lord and have thought of this set up:-
Vampire lord lvl3, abyssal terror, dark acolyte, summon creatures of the night, red fury, dread lance, crown of the damned.
This gives a lvl 4 wizard with a potential 8 st 7 attacks on a terror causing flying mount. Use him in conjunction with a couple of units of fell bats and you should be able to deliver a hammer blow while trying to pull frenzied units out of position or hitting flanks.
Use blood knights!!! How about some elite heavy cavalry that cause fear, are frenzied, immune to other psychology and hit on the charge with st 7 goodness! Run them in units of 5 with no command. Keeps the cost down while keeping them hard hitting (Thats 15 st 7 and 10 st 4 attacks!). You could fit 2 units in a 2000 point game. Chaos have little shooting so flag of blood keep and drakenhoff banner are not essentials. (The drakenhoff bsb points alone could nearly give you a unit of 5 blood knights.)
With a couple of caster vamps, your lord and the book of arkhan, you should be able to use the magic phase to move your units into combat to get the all important lance bonuses.
Use corpse carts with their miasma to get hits in before the enemy get a chance to use multiple attack models (don't forget vanhels has the same effect on units already in combat. Try this on your unit of G.G. with great weapons, banner of barrows and crown of command. Won't leave many models left to hit you back!
So, a very tough lord backed up by units of cavalry that are better than his and a strong magic phase should see you in good stead.
Sorry about the monster post but a big topic!!!
I have tried the graveguard with greatweapons using helm of commandment and its good but against 25 warriors witha sorceror in there its not going too break them and the next turn the grave guard are in a world or pain.
Why do gg only get one attack? VC get no shooting either so woc cant sa we get better fighters to compensate.
what i have found too work is carn wraiths, i bought a box of flagelents and whacked skelle heads on and given them sythes, cheap wraiths. nothing better too deal with the horsemen-warhounds