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My friend plays WoC and we really only play against each other. When one of us loses we tend to rebuild our lists to correct the problem and do better in the next battle. So now my WoC friend has gone full magic heavy and I am getting torn up. Basically he runs with a Tzeench Demon Prince, 2 more Tzeench sorcerers, and a Nurgle sorcerer. With some magic items i think he said hes got about 14 power dice and 7 DD. I also run a magic heavy list which is linked at the bottom. I'm just getting obliterated in combat phases and the magic phase. A typical combat looks like a unit of chaos warriors with 4 attacks each (2 atks + 1 for khorn frenzy + 1 for additional hand wep) He runs em 6 wide and has 25 dice to attack with. Hits and woulds against skellys on a 3+ so its retarted. My only hope of performing decently against that is to cast Vanhels Danse Macabre which is either dispelled, or he has Pandamonium up which means u miscast on a double roll of anything.
Any suggestions on what I could be doing wrong or does VC just get rocked against an army this heavy in magic? heres my army list btw. Thanks for any comments =)
http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...0-vc-list.html (2250 VC List)
A friend of mine runs very similiar list super heavy magic aswell and i got two words for ya (corpsecart balefire) last game we played he literally got off 2 spells (then again i had two of them stacking) he should have like 7 dispell dice as well so widdle that down with bound items two corpse carts giving ASF on a S6 Graveguard unit will get a few dice thrown at it. Also focus on important things like against said unit cast vanhels in combat if need be to get reroll hits and ASF with some luck a nice flank and an out number theyll run like any other unit.
yea il have to try the Balefire Corpse Cart. I just see the Demon Prince or the other Tzeench caster throwing a Flickering Fire on it and killing it pretty easy (negates the rejuv save).Its annoying with Tzeench that he gets +1 to cast spells, not to mention a ward save. As if thats really neccesary to give them that much of a bonus. Irritates me how they can have such good baseline stat core troops, and some insane casters too.
Last edited by Aurius86; February 13th, 2009 at 06:50.
Balefire is nice especially when taken with 2 carts but finding room for 200 points can be hard.
With 2 balefires it makes his casting flickering fires harder and easier for you to dispel.
Corpse carts can also give you the much needed ASF and with 2 of them you have a better chance of getting it off.
Is your opponent using Marauder horse, is he getting flanks on you with them? If so this will cause more problems than any frontal assault.
No Tarpit unit is going to last long against 4x6 str 4 attacks even if you were to use the Helm of commandment on them(not in your list). But if your even left with 1 zombie after the first round of combat the zombies have done their job as he can't overrun.
Blood Knights should tear his warriors apart as they won't get an AS(4-3=7+), you could even cast a vanhel's once there in combat to re-roll misses.
Grave Guard with Sword and board have a 3+As which becomes 4+ against the chaos warriors. If you get ASF your hitting on 3's, wounding on 4's and killing blow on 6's. This should lessen the attacks back and allow you to raise the difference.
thanks for the advice il definatly give the corpse carts a shot.
Use a small unit of bats to divert his khorne warriors. He has to overrun after he kills them as he's frenzied. Have a flank charge set up. You'll still suffer a lot of wounds, but you've got ranks, a flank, a standard,and with enough magic (or a nifty banner), unit size.
You might replace the varghulf with cairn wraiths. Sure, they might get magicked, but he has to choose either your spirit host or the cairn wraiths to tackle. Either of those ethereal units will cause him fits in combat.
Combat's rough because undead aren't that great anyhow and against the best killy infantry in the game, it's a bad day. So yeah, anything you can do to tip that scale (bloodline power for +1 combat res, double unit size banner, big honking unit to start the game with, helm of commandment, corpse cart, danse macabre).
And you can still out magic him. Pump up the magic level of your lord, give him 2 extra power dice, and then forbidden lore. He can't stop everything.
Ive been pretty much in the same boat and I have just come back from my hobby shop, happy in the fact I beat a warriors of chaos army after re-jigging my army list, chaos truely seem too be the masters of magic and combat this edition. having said that I have bought a box of chaos knights, using extra's from my bits box converted them into blood knights, now thoses bad boys are the only thing in the undead army list ive seen that charge woc units and go throught the other end.
Go magic heavy yourself and have an all out magic fest, as long as the lord get the staff of +1 too cast and dispell, 6 power dice is a powerful scary thing he cant match, i would suggest power stones and wind of undeath, watch him wince every time you roll a 4+ on his precious knight units. Bear in mind your character's can go more magic heavey than his can.
Failing that try doing the zombie trail of raising dead and angling them letting him charge away from the rest of his army. i refuse to do this tactic as i think its too cheesy but whatever.
hope that helps
I played against my WoC friend again yesterday and it looked alot better. He was still really heavy magic but the corpse cart slowed it down a bit. I also won the first turn so that helped a bit. I switched from Spirit host to Cairn Wraiths and they took down a unit of chosen and were holding down a shaggoth after that. What kind of builds do people use with the staff, i would like to try that out. Thanks for the adivce everyone it was a much better battle.
WoC are probably one of the best armies for VC to take on. Because the things they are good at, we can deny them or do better. We can outmagic them, because of our spells we can outmanuevre them, and with our one shooter/screamer we can outshoot them.
The only thing that they can get on us is combat, and because of our items and spells its very difficult for them to win in combat after the first round.
i would keep your starting units reasonably high so you don't need to pump dice into them, normally i have 20 to start. i like having forbidden lore, masters black arts and lord of the dead with a magic lvl upgrade for 5 PD and all spells, or you can get lore of metal and burn those warriors in their armor.
never dual charge any unit with zombies, the amount the warriors will kill will outweigh the CR they provide.
i would go infantry heavy as they go hand in hand w/magic heavy with D6 to raise. keep your lord on a horse for extra armor save though.
also magic banners are awesome, i normally have a warbanner in a skele unit since they only win through CR and also banner endless nightmare in another for moreith magic hea CR. 3 solid blocks of skeles plus 2 units of 20 GG will work wonders. use direwolves and a varghulf for flanking as they're cheap for wat they do.
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