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  1. #1
    Member WildWoodie's Avatar
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    casting vs combat

    hello all. i currently am playing 1k games with my vc army and am finding that focusing on casting is the way to go (at least it is for me so far) and was just wondering once i start getting to 1500 and 2k and higher point games if its found better to go combat or magic heavy lists or find a balance of casting and combat in order to stay competitive. Any feed back is welcome thanks in advance.


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    Hero level vampires are pretty fragile, so when that's your general, it can be a bit dangerous to build a fighty vamp list.. casting might be the best way to go until 2k.

    Once you hit 2k, your options really start to show. Both casting-oriented lists and combat-oriented lists are very effective. Obviously a casting list does need some fighty stuff in there (grave guard and/or black knights, for example) to kill some things, but traditionally, the VC lists that focus on one or the other are more effective than ones that try to do both.

    The thing to keep in mind, though, is the level of competition and general attitude of the local gamers. A pure casting or pure fighting vampire list is very strong and can get complaints of "cheese" by certain types of opponents. If your LGS likes competitive play, focus on one or the other... if it's more laid back, you might want to stick with a mix list (or find a new army :p).

  4. #3
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    I have found that casting is a pretty good way to go around here. Our list is already geared towards magic. Even our fighters can cast. And we pay premiums for both. However, having 'Lord of the Dead' and the ability to spam ION, or VanHel's, really pays dividends.

    The way that I see it, we pay for our casting. And we pay for our ability to fight. However, our ability to fight is the only thing which GW could really "tax". They knew how good we would be at combat, they knew how much WSxx is worth, and Sxx is worth. So they were pretty spot-on with their estimates of what to charge us. But, how could they ever predict the kind of diabolical schemes that we could come up with using just a handful of skeletons and a nasty caster combo?
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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    If it wasn't for things like the Helm of Commandment or Master of the Black Arts, then I would always go for a melee lord. Its also the fact that if you lord dies, then its pretty much game over so i think its easier to keep him alive if he just casts spells. In the list I run I use a vampire lord as a caster with the helm and a vampire with dark acolyte and biting blade so he can do both (and i give him flayed hauberk). I think that Wight Kings actually do better as a melee character then a regular vampire hero (he has 3 attacks and toughness 5) give him the +1 T armor and sword of kings and he is just a real beast in combat.

    I'm currently trying to make a list with a Lord as a fighter and put him in a unit of blood knights. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with an all combat list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by limp.dragon View Post
    If it wasn't for things like the Helm of Commandment or Master of the Black Arts, then I would always go for a melee lord. Its also the fact that if you lord dies, then its pretty much game over so i think its easier to keep him alive if he just casts spells. In the list I run I use a vampire lord as a caster with the helm and a vampire with dark acolyte and biting blade so he can do both (and i give him flayed hauberk). I think that Wight Kings actually do better as a melee character then a regular vampire hero (he has 3 attacks and toughness 5) give him the +1 T armor and sword of kings and he is just a real beast in combat.

    I'm currently trying to make a list with a Lord as a fighter and put him in a unit of blood knights. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with an all combat list.
    I play a very combat heavy vampire army (at 2,250, I have 5 power dice which are typically unused for the first turn or two)... The blood knights typically don't need a lord level character in there, as long as they have the flag of the blood keep to help protect from cannons / bolt throwers. Put a vamp hero with dread knight, infinite hatred, and the blood drinker and they're solid.

    The vamp lord can go elsewhere. Putting him on a dragon is always fun, or even just dreadlance him in some black knights and watch him destroy units on his own protected from shooting by the black knights... then the drakenhoff Wight King BSB in another unit of black knights is a great thing. Varghulf just for fun and you're good to go.

    Biggest problem I've run into is power daemon armies. Khorne daemons with a thirster is very difficult, as are the flying circus Kairos / heralds on chariots / screamer lists. Otherwise, it's very strong against just about everything else.

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    I hope this isn't getting off topic, but I was wondering what type of core choices you would use for an all combat army. I really wish dire wolves were core.

  8. #7
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    My favorite Combat Lord was used in a 3K game. Here's how he looked and worked:

    Vampire Lord w/ Blood Drinker, Enchanted Shield, Crown of the Damned, Talisman of the Lycni, Infinite Hatred, Red Fury, Avatar of Death
    total: 300pts
    This gives him the ability to regenerate wounds, a 2+ save, a 4+ wardsave, move 9, hatred, and the ability to double his number of attacks.

    The plan is to stick him in a unit of ghouls, and toss Ghoulkin on one of your less useful vampires. If you're brave, you can swap Avatar of Death for GKin and add 5pts to his cost. The unit marches before turn 1, and on your first turn you leave the unit as a charge. That gives him a charge range of 26" on the first turn, without VDM.
    Once he's in combat, on the first round he should do tons of damage, but if he fails for some reason, he's got his 4+ against his crumble, and then can regain wounds with his sword. He has tied up entire units of my opponent's most elite troops, for entire games.
    ---

    to answer question about core choices- we've only got 2: Skeletons or Zombies.
    The zombies won't kill anything alone, and your vampires can't join them for cover (which can be bad if you don't have any magic defense). However, each of your Vampires can cast a little bit of magic, and they could use this to raise the Zombies into much larger units, if they aren't regenning wounds across the rest of the army.
    Skeletons can give you cover, can actually fight well enough to pose a threat to some armies, and cost twice as much. If you want the elite "every one of my units can potentially kill you" army, Skeletons would be the way to go, and that's the way I've always chosen.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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    I'm pretty sure you can't ward save against crumble wounds.

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    Yes, your allowed ward saves and regeneration against crumble (unlike TK or DoC) you just can't take armor saves.

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