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  1. #1
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    Trying to pick between WE and VC, would love some feedback about my impressions

    Hi all -- I used to play WHFB during 5th ed and 40k during 3rd ed and am considering taking the hobby up again. I've narrowed choices for a new army down to Wood Elves and Vampire Counts, and I'm hoping you all can help me out. I'll list my impressions and thoughts about VC below:


    1. Army is diverse with a lot of fun things to paint.

    2. Gorgeous alternative models for Blood Knights from Gamezone. Also a solid Corpse cart alternative from the same company. Some nice alternative vampire character models out there too.

    3. Lots of plastics.

    4. Great magic. I love the ability to raise new units and or refresh depleted ones.

    5. I have a soft spot for vampires and the undead in general. Well, perhaps soft spot is the wrong phrase, but you get the picture.

    6. Mix of throwaway and hard hitting troops leads to more tactical options.

    7. Army is forgiving. I'm not new to strategy gaming by a long shot nor even WHFB, but I haven't played in a good 8 years and it'll take me a bit to get back into form.

    8. Army is competitive but can also be designed to be fair, from what I've heard. Having an army that can be tailored to a variety of play situations is important.

    9. Tons of options for equipping characters. Powerful combos.


    1. High model count can get expensive and takes a ton of time to paint up to a high standard.

    2. I can see zombies being annoying to paint.

    3. Army is seen as cheesy.

    4. Army has a reputation for being "point and click." While this doesn't bother me per se, I WOULD like to play an army that rewards advanced tactics and high-level play. It's one thing to have an army where you can make mistakes and win, but it's another thing entirely to have an army that is so one-dimensional that it doesn't really reward generalship. Honestly, I don't know how much this applies to this army.

    5. Nigh complete lack of shooting.

    6. Not a fan of the zombie dragon (neither the model nor the idea, really)

    I'm mainly concerned about CON #4. I'm glad that the army is fairly easy to use as I'll be able to do well from the start, but I also want to play an army that can grow with me tactically.

    If any of you could comment on this dilemma I'd really appreciate it!

    EDIT: I'd also love to hear some comments on painting zombies. For me, avoiding mistakes/splotches isn't a big deal. The bigger problem is the level of varied detail that zombies call for. Tattered clothing is going to be a very different color from the flesh, which will be a very different color from the guts/gore, which is very different from the exposed bone etc.

    That seems a lot harder than painting heavy armor units where the vast majority of the model is going to be on the same color palette.

    Similarly, the body parts are going to be very different for assembly lining. Different torsos are going to have different gore in different places, different exposed bone etc, whereas for other armies the torsos will be generally much more similar. This goes for other body parts as well, of course.

    Last edited by swarmofseals; March 18th, 2009 at 01:55.

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  3. #2
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    Well, having seen that you also have a thread in the Wood Elf Forum which seems to be getting a lot of attention, I feel it would be remiss of us to ignore your questions.

    I wasn't going to answer because I haven't actually played any games with my burgeoning Vampire Counts army, so I'm probably the last person who should offer you advice. But I know a bit of the theory behind VCs, so I can give it a go...

    Let's just look at the cons, as I think your PROS are pretty accurate...

    1. High model count can get expensive and takes a ton of time to paint up to a high standard.
    TRUE. Then again, I am a very, VERY slow painter, so I don't think it would matter if I was painting a small model count army - it would still take me ages. On the plus side, you can use a lot of similar colours (bone, brown, whatever) and techniques (washes, drybrushing) across pretty much the entire army, speeding things up considerably.

    One could argue that the Wood Elf models may be more detailed and use a more varied palate, thus slowing you down. But I'm just looking for excuses, really.

    2. I can see zombies being annoying to paint.
    I don't like zombies and have never painted them; I can agree this is a possibility, but don't see how it would be all that different from other miniatures.

    3. Army is seen as cheesy.
    Ahh, the age old 'you've beaten me so your army is cheesy' trick.

    I like Vampires. That's why I collect the army, and that should be all there is to it. If anyone calls cheese at you, I give you permission to punch them in the face*

    4. Army has a reputation for being "point and click."
    Could probably be said of any army. Yes, it CAN be point and click... or you can try a completely uncommon build which involves a lot of subtlety and relies a great deal on interaction between units. I guess the army is what you make it, and you can always experiment to make a more tactically interesting army.

    5. Nigh complete lack of shooting.
    True (aside from the banshee or magic missiles) but it hasn't really bothered us before...

    6. Not a fan of the zombie dragon (neither the model nor the idea, really)
    I'll agree with the model bit, but the background... can you not imagine an immortal, centuries-old being rising amidst clouds of grave-dust astride an unearthly spectral dragon, blazing balefire shimmering from his armour, his dark eyes seeking the souls of the living...

    Also, imagine that thing crashing into a unit of rank and file with a fully deck-out lord on its back. Perhaps it's becoming a more palatable concept now?

    I don't know what I can really say to convince you. Vampire Counts are a dark, nightmarish army with great depth, both in tactics and fluff. I wanted an evil army and you don't get much more evil then Vampire Counts, so for me the choice was obvious.

    That said, practically all of the Wood Elf models are fantastic, while the VC range isn't quite so gorgeous. To be fair, there's only so much you can do with zombies. (I also hate skeletal horses, just for the record), and we do have some models I really like, but just not the same consistency.

    But as I see it, the conversion opportunities for a Vampire Counts army are much more diverse than for Wood Elves, just because you're dealing with undead constructs raised by obsessive, crazy vampires. Who knows what they'll come up with?

    I think I'm beginning to ramble now, so I might just leave it here.

    But if you like conversions and/or a darker edge to your army, I would humbly suggest Vampire Counts.


    *But I'm not going to get you out of the trouble it will cause.
    Rabbit; Our Tau community has the talent of figuring out how to turn a feather into a timebomb. Macgyver would be jealous.
    8people; Honey, why is my fluffwars story your shopping list?

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