Invocation of Nehek - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Invocation of Nehek

    I've been planning a VC army for a while.
    I planned to house the vampire in a unit of Grave Guard.
    Just realised last night that Invocation of Nehek requires line of sight.

    Meaning: vampire has to be behind all unit wishing to be cast on
    vampire cannot cast on his own unit (due to latest faq)

    What the hell do I do now? =)

    Firstly...am I right about this?

    If I am:

    Do casting vampires have to stay at the back of the army for the entire battle?



    I've read people are housing vampires in units of skeletons...but I didn't want to use skeletons at all, are there other suitable options?


    Help!



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  3. #2
    Pro at everything Mirage.'s Avatar
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    Invocation of Nehek does not require line of sight there is only one spell in the vampires lore that requires it and that is gaze of nagash because it is a magic missile. If a spell says that you can cast it within a certain range it means you do not need line of sight, unless of course its a magic missile

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    Member Necromaster's Avatar
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    Grave Guard are a great unit for your General. I use them all the time when I play and they do awesome. 20 GG are a must though and banner of barrows is needed as well. mixed with your general and a wight king with battle standard of drakenhof and it makes for an unstoppable unit. Keep a corpse cart close and always use the always strikes first bound item with it. One more thing, great weapons! These mixed with ASF, your enemy wont know what hit them. Add a helm of commandment with a hero in another unit giving them a WS6 and it makes them the best unit in my opinion.
    Killing Blow!!

    Peace Out

  5. #4
    Pro at everything Mirage.'s Avatar
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    Firstly it sounds necromaster that you are one of those Vampire players who just puts everything that makes people hate Vampires into a Vampire army thus making people hate them more because theyve just been sucker punched by a ridiculously powerful army.

    Im going to make a thread about why its stupid to do this

  6. #5
    Senior Member PrOtOcoN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage. View Post
    Firstly it sounds necromaster that you are one of those Vampire players who just puts everything that makes people hate Vampires into a Vampire army thus making people hate them more because theyve just been sucker punched by a ridiculously powerful army.

    Im going to make a thread about why its stupid to do this
    So...you'd advise we play in a way that'll make our opponent like being beaten by us? Isn't it that any effective "game winning" unit, tactic or combination thereof will be "disliked" by people who were on the receiving end of it?
    Personally I don't really hate what any army list can dish out. In my experience what people find to be the greatest challenge in fighting against VC is the following:

    - All units are immune to psychology
    - All units cause fear
    - All units can be healed very easily
    - Our core units can easily enlarged, or new ones created with simple, spammable spells.

    The specific unit combos you then cook up can only really be evaluated by their general effectiveness. Anything else is personal preference that often isn't the best thing to evaluate things by, I'll give an example. I dislike the vampires in the VC book. I find the rules uninteresting. But I wouldn't dream of recommending everyone to discard them as I have as if that were somehow better than using vampires. I prefer not to use them when I can, that's my preference. In general however they're excellent hero choices and for most they'll work just fine.

    Necromasters recommendation and suggested combo is extremely powerful if it works. If we pull it apart we find alot of good tips; Sneaking a Helm of commandment in range of your grave guard is not a bad idea, they suffer abit for their low ws and that alone is a good tip. The banner of barrows is great for their low ws (I certainly wouldn't couple it with helm of commandment since that seems like abit of overkill) but on its own it is good advice to have the Banner of barrows, great weapons and a corpse cart.

    I don't know...I just found your reply to be overly vitriolic. He seems to be just trying to help with his other question about where to keep his general safe, which is an issue all of us VC players have to tackle.

    Lets try to give more generally relevant advice and then explain our preference, as opposed to advice only relevant to our style of play without any further explanation.

    Sorry for the off topic rant, I just felt like I had to speak up abit.
    Last edited by PrOtOcoN; April 12th, 2009 at 22:01.

    Your fluffraping hurts my eyes. - TehDarkPredator

  7. #6
    Senior Member VampireCountsFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage. View Post
    Firstly it sounds necromaster that you are one of those Vampire players who just puts everything that makes people hate Vampires into a Vampire army thus making people hate them more because theyve just been sucker punched by a ridiculously powerful army.

    Im going to make a thread about why its stupid to do this


    Some don't like necro's. There only good as a scoll daddy anyway, with or without a cart. This isn't stupid, its there play style, read some more. When you say something like "im going to make a thread about why its stupid to do this" you mean using all vampires... In a vampire count army? You crack me up. Necros=scroll daddys, and usually guess what... what a vampire count army strong magic you usually dont need a scroll daddy. I play more of an agressive list myself less magic more calvary and combat vampires. Never leave home though without my Necro scroll daddy.
    Last edited by VampireCountsFTW; April 12th, 2009 at 22:50.
    Vampire Counts-4000 Points
    Empire-2250 Points
    Black Templars-2000 Points

  8. #7
    Senior Member PrOtOcoN's Avatar
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    Necros=scroll daddys
    Actually they can be quite abit more than scroll caddies

    Check out (VC: The starters guide)this thread for more info on that.

    Your fluffraping hurts my eyes. - TehDarkPredator

  9. #8
    Pro at everything Mirage.'s Avatar
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    Protocon i know i said it in a bit of a bad way but what im really trying to say is that, putting over 1000 points into making a single unit powerful is in my opinion ridiculous, i know this because i used to do it (because i didnt exactly have the most models) In cases where people dont have enough models i find its ok, but when your using them in a game where youve got enough points to put evenly throughout your army i find to be a waste and another thing that gives VC a bad name.

    When you talk about that combo and splitting it up i completely agree with you. Your idea behind it costs 1/2 to 1/3 less of the army to use, because in his idea that is what hes doing. Ill more or less break it down

    Grave Guard 315
    Wight king 225
    Vampire Lord 205-455
    Corpse Cart 100
    Vampire 130-200

    As you can see from this you waste from 975 to 1295 points on making one unit what you believe to be invincible, with all this youve got a weak magic defence, if you decide to take it and a unit that can be countered rather easily

    Where as yours protocon which i believe would be far more effective is.

    Grave Guard 315 (maybe more for GW)
    Corpse Cart 100

    Yours is very cheap and is not seen as over the top.
    I hope you sorta get what im trying to say.

  10. #9
    Senior Member PrOtOcoN's Avatar
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    @Mirage

    I agree with you. I've seen alot of VC lists that seem to focus around one very expensive unit winning them the game, I call those lists "Hammer" lists, and I don't find them fun. They're not that fun to play against since if you are able to counter it you're going to win pretty easily in a few turns. If you can't counter it you'll be running away from that one unit the entire game, becoming a game of drawn out cat and mouse.
    I don't see this as a problem with just the VC list though, plenty of armies can create that "über" unit with all the bells and whistles. No matter the list though, it isn't any more fun in my opinion.
    So yes, I get what you're saying Mirage and I agree. ^^

    Your fluffraping hurts my eyes. - TehDarkPredator

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    Senior Member DarkKnight's Avatar
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    Well Mirage all those things you listed are not in a single unit. He did not stick 2 vamps plus a WK in one unit. In fact that three or four units there. I personally play GG with a WK in it. Yes its a powerful unit but I am sure not ashamed of it. Calling someone's ideas on how to set up there army stupid because it does not fit your ideas makes you sound well... not very nice.

    @Necro and lemontron
    I support sticking your General in with GG. If it is as overwhelming powerful as this post seems to claim then that can play right into your playing style. First off it will keep your general alive which is very important for a VC player. Second your opponent will have to choose to face you or let your unit move where you please. The corpse cart and the helm are also great to keep by, ASF, helps with rezing back models, higher WS if that unit needs it more than another.

    Saying all that, I do fully support other styles of play. I have always enjoyed PrOtOcoN zombie fest but a General in GG is a solid move.
    "Ah, but the truth is like an expensive whore, Jerek. She comes in many dresses and will bend over for any with the money to pamper her." ~ Konrad von Carstein

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