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Just read some of the army lists by protocon and was wondering if it's possible to go insane with power dice with 3 vamps instead of necros. Unless i've missed something can't i take 3 vamps, give them all Master of the Black Arts, and churn out 11 power dice a turn?. Admittedly when geared up they will take up about half of the points in a 1k game but even with only 300 starting points of zombies (leaving room for banners and corpse carts) couldn't I swarm the board with them relatively easily. It also gives me 5 DD which isnt awful and with supporting magic items such as the helm of commandment and other bound items do you think this take on the zombiefest lists will work?
You can, the only weakness I see is protecting the vampires. If I remember right protocon puts necros on the corpse carts which adds some protection to them. It could be a scary army to face as you could easily have 4 units of 20 zombies in a thousand point game without any problem. Let me know how it works out for you.
"Ah, but the truth is like an expensive whore, Jerek. She comes in many dresses and will bend over for any with the money to pamper her." ~ Konrad von Carstein
Problem is zombies don't do a whole hell of a lot, they can't get any kills on there own, if you do your one lucky bugger let me tell you. So maybe the most you can get from combat rez is 8. that is with 3 ranks, a flank, a rear, outnumbering, and a banner, seems like a lot of combat rez, but you need to do a whole hell of a lot to get that combat rez, and with even most basic troops hitting and wounding on 3+ expect your opponent to get a lot of combat rez from kills.
I was planning to make 3 units of 22 initial zombies (which will GROW), with 1 vamp in each flanking block. Then i'll sneak in as much combat res as i can into each. In one of the flanking blocks the vamp will use to helm to keep 1 block safe.
The bound spell from my carts will help my zombies to get at least a couple of wounds down due to the sheer number. I'll be giving the Rod of flaming death to another to try to get units to flee while in combat with zombies to trigger their shambling horde ability in huge quantity. the remaining vamp will be running about with the Lycni talisman to keep him safe. I might kit him out to deal with war machines however or stick him in the remaining block. One vamp will get raise dead and that will be used as my emergency tar pit.
However protocons idea of the sceptre de noirot is a very nice one i'm loath to neglect. My real aim is mainly the same (I love the idea of an endless wave of undead that they just can't kill enough of) but I want to try to get more power dice, so i may have to swap a vamp out for the necro and the sceptre and fill in the spare point wth more zombies.
Last edited by Nightflare; April 14th, 2009 at 23:12.
Someone at my local store has a mainly zombie horde, with over 100 zombies. I would recommend a Helm of Commandment and a Corpse Cart or 2. You really need 1 or 2 killing units and a combat based Vampire. I really think that's the way to go. You have your ridiculous horde of zombies that will be in combat for the whole game, but you'll get a draw or a loss with nothing but zombies. If you have 2 level 2 Vampires then your magic will be good enough. That third vampire can be a dread knight infinite hatred Vampire.
I know you probably want nothing but zombies and corpse carts, but without some units that hit hard you're gonna struggle. In 1000 I suppose you could always use zombies and corpse carts to hold the enemy and then send your knight vampire into those unit's flanks with Vanhels to break your enemy.
In higher points games you'd still be using a footslogger army so I'd say some footslogger killers. Units of 15 Grave Guard with great weapons are awesome with a Helm of Commandment and always striking first.
Well my fear would be people casting spells on your zombie units that hit every model like wall of flame, flames of the phonix etc. Shit like that and say good by to your zombies. I know you may say its only 1 unit but remember zombies are shit... and every extra unit zombie you summon is a potential free 50 VP which in a thousand point game can hurt.
But hey would be cool to do and see... go with the roll of avrage army..... eventualkly the enemy unit is going to miss badly in 1 round of combat and run...
Which acutually brings another point that even if they do chances are they will rally and charge in again so even the normal undead tactic of fear/run/chase/kill doesnt really work.
Good luck tho
---------- Post added at 23:40 ---------- Previous post was at 23:35 ----------
You got it a bit wrong there Zaki. If you summon a fresh unit of zombies it doesn't give the owner free victory points, otherwise in our last turn we'd just summon 10 units of zombies. The victory points rule only applies when your opponent kills the unit or reduces them to half strength.
i ment free VP to the enemy as u get 50 vp for every unit summoned whither it be zombies or etherals from winds of undeath.. all i mean is that zombies are extremely shit so the last thing you want to do is go into a game and think well ill summon 4 more units which if you do not get them large enough can be easy points...
you guys might be right about the third vamp (or second if i take a necro to save points). I guess tho, if i wanna win any games i need to take at least 1-2 units that can deliver a punch. I doubt i will take ghouls or skeles, because enough zombies will serve me there, maybe some black knights to go with the melee vamp will work
Last edited by Nightflare; April 15th, 2009 at 01:37.
I've played with this kind of list; I'll bottomline my experience with it.
You end up taking a metric ton of zombies, and ressing more. They become an unstoppable anvil that you force problematic units to fight. Generally, you take one unit of skeletons to protect your vamps. Corpse carts are questionable at best, because you're not really counting on your Zombies to fight for you, you just want them to hold down units that are either inconveniently positioned or frankly too powerful to deal with. They form up around the Vampire and protect his position, while faster, more powerful attacking units split away from the vamps to go fight, keeping within range for things such as Helm of Commandment, or ressurections, etc. Positioning the hordes of zombies becomes a key here.
After taking them, a beatstick or two gets taken. Around 2000 points, I end up with a unit of Wraiths (4-5), a Vargulf, and a unit of Black Knights to do my actual fighting. 1500ish I drop the Vargulf and Wraiths and replace them with Blood Knights (go speed and power!). Grave Guard work alright, but I've never really liked them without Corpse Carts, which are actually kinda hard to fit into this kind of list. (Maxing out on vamps means less points for other stuff.)
Simply put, because you've tooled yourself up for zombie maxing, you haven't taken the bonuses that work well with standard core units. As such, you'll be relying on heavy hitters (that are fewer in number) to get the job done. It works well enough - certain lists fail pretty hard against it; they simply can't kill your zombies to get to the Vamps. However, the problem shows up when you lose your actual attacking units; things like Skaven gunlines are actually pretty harmful to this list, not becuase they'll ever reach your vampires, but because they're more than adqueate to kill off your only real means of attack.
Also, a final caveat: a unit is either to be grappled by zombies OR killed by your hammer, not both. Zombies are so utterly craptastic that (with maybe the exception of 5 Blood Knights w/ Strigos Banner on a charge...) you'll fail in combat resolution because of them. If you can set it up so that you'll utterly slaughter the unit first, or that they'll break through the last of your zombies in just time for you to charge the unit, that's one thing...but otherwise, pick one method for how you're going to deal with that unit and be done with it.