Welcome to Librarium Online!
Next days I'm playing with my High Elves against my friend's VCs.
Because that I'm not often playing with my own VC army (infantry army, thread is also in the Armylists) and I don't really know what he is taking in his army I ask you for advice.
What is a real VC player fearing/disliking (I know, the word fear may sound stupid for a Vampire player :-) ) ?
Swordmasters and Dragonprinces? Spearmen? RBT's?
Thank you for your advice.
With best regards;
A major dislike for a VC player you can count on is not being able to dominate the magic phase. Definitly make use of the drain magic spell.
I find shooting largely ineffective against VC but combin shooting with taking away the VC's ability to summon troops back could do some damage.
Also, make LARGE units to face the large amount of infantry you will likely encounter so you will not auto break. use sword masters to counter some of the VC's hard hitting units.
thinking about it, phoenix guard with a better static CR than us would own most things head on. Something to protect flanks and you're set. PG will be immune to fear, should kill first rank and have decent save against our hammers, so with outnumbering, equal ranks and a standard we should be crumbling
If you have a fair bit of shooting then Drain magic coupled with concentrated fire will hurt him.
Regardless make sure you cast drain magic so he has to choose his spells very carefully.
Watch what his vampires do/use in the first 2 turns and you should be able to figure out the majority of powers and items then use your first strike to do some harm to his non combat vampires.
If he does not reveal his powers/items then its probably a combat vampire and deal with as you can.
Obviously try for flanks and rears and remember that a seemingly unstoppable VC unit will still loose to CR and removing ranks and getting flank and rear bonuses are a huge swing even against Red Fury
Large blocks of spears will work great as you should be able to generate combat res and not auto break, with drain magic in play he will be hard pressed to maintain unit size.
If he summons zombies hopefully you have enough control on magic that he can't dance them into your rear or flank giving your archers a turn to kill them, Zombies make great pin cushions.
Sword Masters are great against undead as there is nothing to shoot them and with ASF they can stand up to Graveguard pretty good.
If you suspect Cairn Wraiths or the Drakenhof Banner make sure you have a Lore of Fire to send MM's into them and Magic weapons on some champions for the Wraiths.
Last edited by apbevan; April 21st, 2009 at 17:26.
HE players at my shop generally have trouble dealing with it when I take Carin Wraiths or create Spirit Hosts.
Depending on the build, a standard 2000 point list can generate between 7 and 9-11 dispel dice on the VC player's side. You may have some difficulty getting magic to go off. If your friend then takes dispel scrolls on top of it, your magic phase might have issues. (Teclis is pretty much unstoppable in that area, but that's an aside.)
The advice the other posters have given is sound. The only thing I'd like to add is this - take the Amulet of Light (I think that's what it's called?) on one of your harder hitting units - Swordmasters would be perfect. If you run into an ethereal unit, you literally cannot put them down without magic attacks (or very serious combat resolution, but that'll be very hard against the Carin Wraiths), and you shouldn't count on the magic phase to be able to do it for ya. Have a unit with "Surpirse! I've got magic attacks! You're dead!" ready.
Pick off any vampires that are walking around alone - immediately. (This is especially true of the general.) RBTs or massed shooting are good for that. Realistically, there should be no point at which the vampires are not in a unit to protect them, even if it's just basic skeletons. (Standard Skeletons only have a 5+ save, so the RBT's volley shots will actually do some respectable damage to them. If he's gotta raise the Vamp protection unit, that's less dice he's throwing at ressing other stuff.)
White Lion chariots are pretty obnoxious, just don't throw them at zombies, and try for flanks. If you get them into a position where they have to fight the vampires, you're not going to do well, but if they can go up against the standard infantry... well, undead stuff are low T, poor armor, and not all that hard hitting, save for Grave Guard.
Finally, watch out for Vargulf. It's one of the better rare choices we've got, and it'll be coming up your lines to mess with your archers/casters/war machines. I've found it to be one of my best units against HE players at my store. Can almost always get a turn 2 charge and after that, he's a terror-causing ball of hits on 3s/4s, hates, and wounds on 2.
Last edited by SMann233; April 21st, 2009 at 19:55.
HE should not have many problems with Cairn Wraiths if you equip your champions with magic weapons. I don't have the HE book but I think most of your champions can get magic equipment. The Amulet of light is a good choice for a small unit like Sword masters.
I don't think Chariots in the side are the best tactic as you don't break the VC flank with that. The extra kills is nice but you should be generating more attacks/kills with just about any HE unit you use.
Silver Helms and or Dragon Princes would be pretty good. The AS will help against the vampire's S5 and ghouls poison while the mobility will allow you to better flank units, I would choose these over the chariots... unless your picking lion chariots because of their cool factor.
Does anybody still run lone characters on foot anymore? especially vs an army with shooting. You can hide characters for a bit in/behind trees but that limits their usability and can eventually be picked off without support.
A lone vampire will be equipped with Wristbands of black gold and probably Armour of Night at which point your better off shooting something else. If this is the case use a non MM spell on him as the wristbands won't protect against that.
Last edited by apbevan; April 21st, 2009 at 21:13.
I have found that I do a lot better at the higher point level because I have my lord which helps me cast spells. You might have an easier time at lower points because VC can only take the vampire who at most is a level 2 wizard.
The most important question to ask is how much you want to win.
If its something you really want to win then go VERY magic heavy, maybe archmage, mage, dragon mage with the bound spell and the one use vauls unmaking and take as much shooting as you can muster. Against most basic blocks spears should be able to hold their own and VC is one of the few armys that tend to not like LSG.
Just beware of our fear. Consider putting the immune to fear/terror banner on your most important unit.
There's some HE item called Vortex Shard or something that ends the magic phase. I hate that thing. It's expensive and one use only but nothing is more frustrating than picking up your pile of power dice ready to raise a shed load of casualties back only to have the smug elf git go "dispelled and magic phase ends" after your first spell.
2000AD's answer to all "How do VC deal with ..." questions: Forbidden Lore + 2 Power Stones.
Further answers will require more vodka.
Yeah I hate it when my first spell is a miss cast and ends my magic phase. Next time you can show that smug elf by rolling irresistibly all phase... yeah that'll show em.