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Hi guys! I just started playing vampire counts and I havent been doing well with them.
I am pretty sure that has to do with me as a player and not the army list.
To sum up Ive played a total of 4 battles against my chaos opponent not winning once. He has got 1 solid + 1 massacre and the last two are bore draws.
In your opinion what is the most cheesy army I can field with 1500 points at my disposal?
Thanks alot in advance for all army list suggestions and how you would play it to kick arse basicly
I don't condone this kind of thing. It's not a good idea to write a list with the intention of cheese just so that you can win a casual game. I think that you should keep tuning your list a little bit more every time. Besides, you say that you suspect that it's your playstyle that's lacking, instead of your army. I'll admit that WoC can be a tough opponent. Daemons are just one of those things that we can't fight very well except in the big points games. So here's what I'll do okay? I'll post you a starter list that I would use, and it's pretty tough, don't get me wrong- but you have to promise me something: you'll post up the list that you've been using, and if you can- post up your opponent's list. That way maybe we can find out what you're doing wrong.
Okay- here's my idea for a list:Basically, it's a cross between the Zombiefest and the Ubergaurd list. You have your two flankers- the Coach and Knights, and your bunker- the 18 Skeletons. Your two Vampires go into that unit (so watch out for the potential gateway). Your BSB and your GG go in the center of the army, with wide lines of 10x2 zombies on the wings. Anyone can raise Zombies beyond starting, so this should be your goal- make those units nice and beefy. Any of their units that want to fight you, have to fight your GG or fight your zombies regiments. The flankers target the guys who go against the zombies, and try to smash through to the guys facing the GG. Remember- never answer a challenge with a Vampire.Vampire w/ Dark Acolyte, Avatar of Death (HW&S), helm of commandment, black periapt
Vampire w/ Dark Acoltye, Avatar of Death (HW&S), staff of damnation
Vampire BsB w/ flayed hauberk, dark acolyte, avatar of death (GW)
14 Grave Guard w/ champion, standard bearer, Warbanner
18 Skeletons w/ champion, standard bearer
5 Black Knights w/ standard bearer, standard of hellish vigor
With 3 lvl2 casters who are also proficient in combat, you should be able to handle him. Either he takes casters to handle your magic and you fight him close, or he takes fighters and you zap him from a distance.
Well if the other guy is a douche and u just don't give a #$%@.
Manfred - 210
Wight King -225
BSB, Drakenhoff Banner
17 GG - 276
GW, CMD, War Banner
3 x 20 zombies
Vampire - 150
Vampire - 150
Necro - 105
2 x Zombies
2 x 9 Wraiths - 950
List #2 will destroy.
Unfortunately I think that second list is illegal, since you can only have 1 rare choice in a 1500 point list. Otherwise, totally destructive.
ya my bad i forgot about that, Then just spirit host it up, and change the necro to a vampire with Wolf form, Periapt, Scroll, Avatar and Acolyte. Keep the one unit of wraiths at 10 and just add 2 characters! Better hope someone brought their magic items..... o, i think deamons will destroy your army, so ya don't play deamons....
I don't generally like it when people write very powerful lists just to win a casual game. I would recommend some Black Knights and probably a Varghulf.
Im with bago on this one. tournaments are when you pull out the uber stuff otherwise make it fun for you and your friend. Especially if he/she is the only one you play games with. It should be fun and stretch you. Play around with your armies and find ones that are interesting to play with. thats what I do. it's more satisfying in the long run.
I totally disagree with you guys! Interesting..lots of fun and challenging!? I get all those factors in a battle no matter if I make the most cheesy VC list. Why?! Because my opponents will have cheesy armies too and hate to lose.
Casual game or tournament makes no difference to me. Why on earth should I play a different list in a casual list than in a tournament. That is so ridicilous to say. I have to practice a tournament list cause those sharks playing there wont give me an inch. Even if I have the cheese of all cheeses it is rotten if I dont know to play it right?
The goal of a warhammer game is to have fun. To some that means having a theme list which isnt made to win but to fit a campaign theme or something. It is totally cool to play JUST for fun without even thinking about winning at all. In that case I understand and support the arguments against making the most cheesy army possible.
But to me and my brethren who wants to WIN above all else it means something else..my fellow armchair generals..Fun is to win. Fun is to smash my opponent into oblivion and make him so pissed that he squeezes every ounze of cheese from his army list to get revenge. Fun is when the stakes are maxed out because losing will lead to utter humiliation. Fun is a battle where one little mistake can tip the scales because both players play their very best to win and I will get punished severily for that mistake.
I have played with a so called "cheesy" VC list from a forum. As I said Ive been massacred once, beaten with a solid victory and endured two draws. In my opinion not only does it make sense to make the best army list possible, its necessary to make for a balanced battle.
My opponent use a deadly combo against my army. 85 points can win him the game outright. Infernal puppet with the "automatic miscast if fail a spell" thingy used against my general. The only way I could safeguard against this is not to use my general in the magic phase at all which gives him another edge. In addition to knights who have 1+ armour save, an angry hellcannon which can..well you know what it is capable of. Elite infantry with stats that make my units into spectators. 2 flying sorcerers of Tzeentch who because of my limited line of sight and protected by his dispell dice practicly can do whatever they want. Last but not least his exalted hero with 5 attacks cause he use a magic weapon can wreak havoc. Combined all this can make enough casualties that my neheks wont keep him tied up on all fronts.
Against this it is my duty to the term "balanced" to make the best army possible.
Fun is when you strive to win against your opponent and finally make it. With experimenting, practice and a lot of tweaking to get the best VC list against most armies the game will reward me with a victory in the end. Even if I have to get smashed by my opponent again and again -.- which I hate. Knowing that there is darkness in the end of the tunnel waiting for my opponent..makes it all worth it!
So save all that cheese whining and arguments against it for those who doesnt care about winning. For those of us who wants to win it doesnt matter if its a casual game or a tournament. The stakes are equal and you play to win and the only boundaries you have to follow are the rules. So open up your army books and start a dairy farm! Cause your opponents certainly will
Last edited by Gluttonic; May 7th, 2009 at 13:07.
I fully understand you, and what you're saying. It's the way that my friends and I play on occasion. All three of us are tournament gamers, me being into it the most heavily. However, outside of the tournaments and outside of our group's elite choices of army, we go up against armies who couldn't possibly beat us. Bagotrx almost flamed me once for taking a tournament list against an empire player who walked away from the table on the second turn.
You have to understand that GW didn't balance WHFB as well as they could have. Overall, the system is balanced. In a random pairing, you still have a 50/50 chance of winning if everyone brings cheese to the table, because there is usually 1-2 armies who can fight you face to face, 2-3 armies who can kick your head in by out cheesing you, and 2-3 armies who'll never stand a chance. But it's not always random pairings, and you'll lose out if you keep thrashing all of your opponents. If you play tournaments, then you've got someplace to go for casual games too- show up there and ask people to play your Tournament VC list. If it's like my local store- lots of people will turn you down.
Learn your capability for cheese- mostly by reading lots of the tournament lists in the Army List section. But play with an army that might be just a little more fun. I can't personally make the division between "cheese" and "casual". I'm like you- I play to win damnit! But I purposefully hamstring myself- I collect Empire, Goblins, and Brettonians. I would never expect them to fare well in a tournament, so I can "cheese it up" in a casual game, and still have a challenge. That's where the fun in warhammer is. I hate walking onto a table and steamrolling my opponent. I'm a people person, I want to be liked. I love being feared- and my VC really are- but you don't get games through being feared. It's more enjoyable to learn all of the armies, learn their maximum capability, and then pick and choose what army to play with someone. It's like being a connoisseur of fine wines. It shows a level of expertise and sportsmanship that will make you popular in your gaming circle.
sorry- i've ranted too long on that subject, it just really frustrates me to find gamers with no honor in their victories. If you want that kind of game, sports would be better because you have the drive to do whatever it takes to win. If there's a reason that you can't play sports, warhammer isn't quite the place to vent your frustration. I will stand by Ollie Bollie's second given list as being quite despicable.
I do not see a problem with taking a "cheesy" army. Personally I do not consider any army list a cheesy one. Every army has some aspect that makes them strong as well as ones that they are weak at. Anyone who complains that an army is cheesy is just that complaining. They could not beat it and so are going to say it is cheesy to protect their egos. I will admit that there are armies that are extremely powerful. However, this does not mean that it is cheesy. If you do think that an army is cheesy then you have a few options.
1. Change your army list. What you need to do is look over your list and see where you were weak. If you think that you were obliterated by your army then create an complete new list. You can take out all the cheese that you can. You can see what tactics you could do differently and learn from your loss.
2. Change your army. If you think that the other army is overly powerful then start building that army. In fact you could even make that exact army and then you will win as well.
3. Play a different game. If you think that there are armies that are too powerful to beat then stop playing. You can start playing monopoly, or chess.
If you are not willing to do any of that then stop complaining. The only reason that you are complaining is because you did not win. I know how it is because I say that I lose because of my poor luck but I try offset that by improving my strategy.