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Hey guys, just wondering if anyone has fought wood evles, if so what your expierences have been and what you use against them. Im just starting vampies and my friend plays wood elves and cannot be stopped.
His list to my knowlege looks like this:
Im not entirly sure, but thats what you have to work against,
thx for everything you can give me
Off the top of my head, I'd advise that you leave your ethereal models at home; Dryads will eat them for breakfast.
Against Wood E's, fire seems to work well, since they often take Treemen. To that end, the Balefire Spike on one of your mounted Vamps is a good thing and the Hellfire Banner is also a nice, cheap choice.
Wood E's usually don't run with a lot of static CR in their lists.. make sure you have enough magic to keep your numbers up and weather their shooting and you should be able to win a war of attrition.
"Is Archon Braigh-Dee going to have to choke a Wych?
Courtesy of Wicky: D.C.S.S.E.P.C.I.C.B.
Other things to consider too:
Black Knights - good armour, magic attacks to smash Forest Spirits, and they can romp straight through the terrain Woodies love to hide in.
Vargulf - Can't think of much that'll trouble him in a Woodie list. Tough, fast, regen, can't flank him. Tough customer.
Ethereals - I wouldn't dismiss them so quickly. If they charge the Forest Spirits, they negate their ward save too, so you should break them with any luck. Vanhels them in combat to re-roll misses with ASF and you're laughing. Wraiths also seem the primary way for you to deal with Way Watchers. They can't touch you, can't out run you, can't hide anywhere. Not too shabby. Banshee should help scream them to death too. Black Knights have a limited use here too, but they can be killed.
Hope that helps a little.
This seems like a no brainer statement but make sure your vamps are in a unit that can take the missle fire attrition.
Also Varghulf is nice but can be dropped by shear number of arrow shots.
Vanhel's is probably your most important spell against WE's, that and IoN to ensure you win the attrition war.
I would ensure someone has the Arkhan's Book.
Also mass quantities of Dire Wolves work well lots of small groups of 5 or 6 gives them lots of targets to worry about. They are cheap and fairly expendable and set up additional flanking units and if they strike first via Danse can easily kill their point cost or more.
I suggest Corpse Carts. They are brilliant against Wood Elves. My friend always makes sure to dispel my Corpse Cart, striking first against weak armoured models is awesome. I would recommend a lot of magic, and a lot of raising. In your first turn just raise your ghouls skeletons everywhere. I suggest Varghulfs and Black Knights. Black Knights will rip through Dryads on a charge and be bold with them, but always have a Helm of Commandment nearby. I had 5 Black Knights with barding and a standard, and they got charged by his Wild Riders and thanks mainly to the helm the unit won combat. Always have a champion in your general's unit. If he sends a suiciding Alter Noble into it then declare a challenge and therefore save your general. Then next turn you can raise him back.
Woodelves can NOT handle magic. It's their real weakness, so if you can, convince him to play a 2k game against you and run a caster lord.
Also- a basic elf is only as strong as his bow: S3. Same goes for their toughness: T3. This means that we can be quite resilient with just heavy armor, and handweapon and shield. Saves points on crazy items and super-saves.
ASF is a beautiful thing, so carts are nasty. They aren't too hot with CR, as stated, so hit them with giant blocks of skeletons. I tend to raise zombies infront of my army, and focus on keeping their numbers up (since you can always raise them beyond starting) to serve as a shooting screen. Then just feed the zombies to their army (they'll probably all die) and then hit them with your real combat units.
If you haven't started your collection, and want to tailor it to kill Wood E's specifically- go with Ghouls for your core units, and Ghoul Kin. T4 is a beautiful thing against the Woodelves, so are tons of attacks. A vamp with Ghoulkin can also help you get across the table a lot faster, which means "less pricklies for us, and more stabbies for them", to quote a goblin player.
Black Knights are awesome, and tons of them can really scare woodelf players. Their cavalry is faster though, so remember to try and use the knights defensively. Don't bother buying barding either, it'll only slow you down even more.
Finally, they can't tree-surf if you're in their woods. You can deny them their own forests by slyly raising zombies in everything you go through. Just think: it's what a vampire would do- send zombies to corrupt and destroy the forest as he passes through.
Woodelves are a decent army in the right hands, but nothing that we as VC players should have trouble with.
If he has an all combat army and has got a lot of magic defense then take out his defense. If your Varghulf can take out his Branchwraith or Spellsinger caddie then you will have a much easier time in the magic phase. Watch out for Treemen. If you take the balefire spike then it is still unlikely that you will kill the Treeman. You will have to charge the treeman with a supporting unit that will take off the rest of its wounds, like a unit of Black Knights with the Banner of Hellfire. Treemen are tanks, you just can't really kill them. I find the best way to do it is zombie them. But if the guy has 5 dispel dice and 2 scrolls and this is below 2000, like 1500 or something then don't zombie the treeman. He has enough magic defense to prevent you from bringing the unit up to a high number. Watch out for the strangle-root attack. That thing is deadly, it can smash lone vampires and maybe even corpse carts.
I would again recommend corpse carts mixed with ghouls. A lot of poisoned attacks striking first against a weak armoured unit is great. Ghouls are just awesome against Wood Elves. Once my ghouls took a wound off the Treeman and won combat by one. He failed his Leadership 8 break test and ran into my black knights, causing him to die.
As both a WE and a vampire player I'd also recommend with respect to the treeman, a raised unit of zombies (easily buffed as WE don't have much magic defense) will tie up the big tree for the whole game with very little support. it has 5 attacks, so at most can kill 5 models (assuming everything hits and wounds - okay not hard to wound a zombie but everyone rolls ones sometime!) Zombies cannot wound it, but it also cannot crumble that many (especially if you get a rank or two - with outnumber he's stuck for a VERY long time)
so 50 points worth of raised zombies to tie up a 300 or so point unit (especially if it's an ancient!) until you've destroyed the rest of his army, set up to multicharge the tree with things that can hurt it, and allowed the zombies to die out (on his turn) so that they do not add cheap CR to the battle by dying when you are ready to attack it!
The trouble is raising enough zombies, because sometimes your opponent will see the threat and let you summon the unit, but stop you from any invocating. Then the treeman comes in and smashes them, although in my experience the treeman will just avoid them and strangle-root something. I think the best way to do it is to raise and then throw 2-3 invocations at it. In my games I only needed one extra invocation but that's because I had the sceptre. If you can send 15 zombies into the treeman, then he's never getting out of it alone. You really just need 1 invocation a turn to keep them going.
Zombies can't charge the turn they've been summoned, so you'll need a vanhel's dance when his dispel dice are all gone. This is where the Book of Arkhan comes in. For 35 points it is a legend. I would recommend having it in every list of yours 1000 points and above.
I fully agree with Bagotrx- he's not half bad at this whole Vampire thing, lol.
Against any army with a low number of dispel dice, we can slam enough bounds and low-value casts to really scare some people. Each cart is a bound, the Book is a bound, the Staff of Damnation is a pretty entertaining bound spell as well, and if we decide to go that route, we can grab a lethal Hand of Dust. Each of these is scary enough that most people will have a hard time deciding if they want to toss a dice at it, or even if they will toss 2 dice at it. The carts and the books are especially evil, since we have Van Hel's as a regular necromancy spell, that does the exact same thing.
I know that people complain about the DoC getting too many power dice, but a VC magic phase is still the most frustrating opponent in the entire game.