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I had a 2v2 this weekend and was using my VC. I am a fan of skeles personally but with my birthday recently, i got my ghoul force up to about 40 models. I had 2k pts to work with and fielded a heavy magic with ghoul army, plus everyone always claims ghouls r way better than skeles, and skeles better than ghouls. This was how it went.
As a vc player at 2k, prob like most of you, i dont lose, but when i had 4 squads of ghouls and 2 corpse carts i was eaisy crushed. I played against lizardmen and orges with bret on my team and i had never lost harder in my life. My ghouls practically did nothing, and i mean maybe 3 lizard dead and hurt iron gut at 1 wound. My corpse cart bound spell never got off which hurt them, but my ghouls without the champion//flag and huge rank bonus my skeles get, not to mention 4+ save, ghouls were no better than zombies.
My question is: Everyone always plays around with "statitics" that say Ghouls are better and i want to know, do you only play armies with 3str and only field squads of 5-10 guys. I mean ogre bulls ran over me, lizard men ran over me, iron guts just slaughtered me. Then my next game was against Korn demons and with their 5 freakin str, ghouls died again. I usually win against these guys with ez
This topic is to explore how you play ur ghouls and maybe since i hate ghouls i can learn from you guys and attempt to try it this sunday, I will be playing same armies for the most parts
Last edited by ZombieCancer; July 20th, 2009 at 20:16.
Good Luck and have fun!
8th Ed WOOT
Now after intense studying of the vamps army book and from my list u commentd on
What other things did u have? Because ghouls can't handle anything with armour on (which is obvious u need other killy killy units so they can do the job for u.) u probably already no this
And tbh against all the things u mentioned ur not gettting a save with skeletons anyway.
How many ghoul units were there anyways?
If playing Ghouls, I have another squad with Static CR (Skellies ofc)... I give my opponent the choice to charge these Skellies (that unit is made as a tarpit) and get flanked by Ghouls or charge one of the ghouls leaving their own rear in a bad-ass situation
The best way to use them is when they are syncronized with the rest of the army... They just won't do it all alone, since they are Core AND Undead
Speaking for a pretty weak position, as I have no experience playing Vampire Counts (In fact, I've only just recently started collecting them, and I'm in love ^^), I understand that the idea of the Undead army is to create something more powerful than the sum of its parts, so if you're basing an entire army on one type of unit, you're hankerin' for a spankerin'.
I reckon the best way would be to keep the ghouls handy, but regard them as one of your more valuable units. If you want a soft squishy tar pit, take zombies, or skeletons as a more durable unit. Like Nagash said, Ghouls should be used for the closest thing Vampire Counts have to a lightning assault as possible, sucker punching units in the flanks and being a general annoyance. It's in the fluff, they're cowardly, pathetic creatures. Use them as such.
"Show 'em the gunline, Boss"
I like ghouls way more then skelletons, I mean, they have t4> skellies , they have ws3>ws2(i know we have helm of commandement but you can't use it in every combat. ok skellies have a 4+ as in combat and have the ability to cary a magic banner and ghous do not but they have 2 poisend attacks. Wich most of the time makes up for it.
I hope it helps.
That is correct Nagash, as a Vc player for 4 years i know the ins and outs of skeles and ghouls, this thread is about how you as a player use your ghouls and what heros you stick with them.
Also what kind of armies you run with them, the army i used this weekend was:
3 vampire caster builds 2 heavy, 1 light
1 Combat Vampire
4 Squads of 14 Ghouls w/ ghast
2 Corpse Carts
16 GG with shields
16 GG with GW
2 Squads of 10 skeles
1 Squad 5 dire wolfs
Note: This army was not themed and was a friendly game made to really push how ghouls work since i have never really used them. Do not critique the army itself
I tried to use my ghouls in first game as flankers, but their flanks ran me over
Then i tried using as main force along with skeles, Ghouls got ran over
Please dont debate whos better as a core choice but how many ghouls u field, whos with them + support they may have and how do you play them,
Note" Please add your opponent's
Last edited by ZombieCancer; July 20th, 2009 at 22:52.
Good Luck and have fun!
8th Ed WOOT
According the note, my opponent is mainly HE This is why the ASF doesn't work that well for me since their Initiative is bad ass
Your unit size seems like the main problem to me. I don't know how you manage 10 skeletons, do you have a vamp with the ability to make them larger than their starting size? This is what ghouls need to if you don't start them big. Minimum 20 in a ghoul unit to start with, and add more in the first turn or two when you have nothing else to cast on. You eed to be getting full ranks and outnumber to start with. Ghouls can deal some damage when they get to hit, they obviously need the average s3 opponents or a cart going off to do too much damage, and big numbers to survive well.
Personally I think in a list you need to mostly focus on either skeletons or ghouls, because whichever you choose will need to be able to be raise a lot and easily. Even if not to make your numbers huge, but to eat a few dispel dice while other spells go off. I tried a vamp lord, 2 necros, vamp, 3 units of ghouls, GG, varghulf, 3 wraiths, 3 carts and it went fairly well against mostly anything I faced. The vamp makes one of the units self sufficient, the carts help all of them and they basically just whittle down the opponent while keeping their numbers up. Plus the varghulf and wraiths add great kills wherever needed and any unit that breaks through (usually GG first) can go and support the other units.
Have to agree with strewart-your units are way to small.
Starting with 15 is much beter, with 20 you dont even have to cast IoN on them.
Also difference betwen ghouls and skelies is 1CR and musician. If the cannot make 1 wound with 11 poison attacks then really.
Ghouls are far better against Ogres than skelies-
ogre has ws3 (hit ghoul on 4 NOT 3),
s4 (wounds ghoul on 4 NOT 3)
and AP, so with -2 to AS skelies LA+Shield is practically useless.
Also i played often against Ogre and Lizard and 2 things that you should carry all the times are Helm of commandment because of their average/low WS and Banshes (be very carefull because of magic missiles) cause both armies have low Ld-take that you cold blooded bastard!