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ok so have 1 or 2 units of 20 Grave guard. Put a corpse cart inbetween them. Have a necro with book of Arkhan. Give the unit the banner of hellfire and Great weapons
this will mean that you'll have 5 x S6 GW attacks, that always strike first and reroll hits, with killing blow and flaming attacks. Let's see what can get past that . . . . .
A decent magic defense? A regiment of Dragon Princes who you can't hurt? Anything else with ASF?
If you want re-rollable attacks, give them the Royal Standard of Strigos for Hatred on the first round. My typical GG set-up is very similar to yours, except that I just simply Helm them, and give them the Banner of the Dread Legion so that they have US 40. Most people auto-break from that.
The Banner of Hellfire is pretty wasteful in my opinion, as there aren't very many units out there with Regeneration.
Not a bad plan, it's pretty standard for VC players though.
I run two units of grave guard, 1 with the banner of the barrows, and the other has the hellfire banner in it, and they each have a combat vampire for more support. I also have the helm in the background, and it all depends on who gets it, sometimes both units hitting on a 3+ is good, and other times one of them hitting on a 2+ is very nice.
The hellfire banner is a pretty decent banner, it really shines against Nurgle Deamons, and useful against ogres who have troll guts cast on them. Really there aren't to many things that have complete protection from fire, there is Dragon Princes and dwarf characters have the option to be immune, but other than that not much, and it's a really cheap banner, so you don't really feel like you waisted any points if you didn't actually get to use it.
Banner of Hellfire? Pffh, Banner of the Barrows all the way. Vampire with Helm of Command nearby, give them great weapons and boom. WS6 (or 7 is used with Lord), S6 with killing blow, against most units you're hitting on 2s wounding on 2s.
Add in a corpse cart or a Van Hels for ASF (and re-roll misses).
And you missed out a unit champion for the extra attack.
2000AD's answer to all "How do VC deal with ..." questions: Forbidden Lore + 2 Power Stones.
Further answers will require more vodka.
Yep, it's not difficult to cram any of our units down someone's throats if we have magic. Plus with vampires, why would you avoid them? It's not like you get many points from running off and hacking at skeletons.
GG are where the VPs are at. If you want to beat vampires, you have two options: either kill our general, or kill all of our really hard units. It's not like you achieve either of those by fighting our core regiments. And that's what makes VC so good.
Unless your running a very mobile List like wood elves your not going to be able to just ignore 2 blocks of infantry. The infantry will be supporting other units and will be making up the core of the army.
A block of 18 GW GG with magic banner comes in around 300pts, not much of a points denial
A block of 20 HW+S GG with magic banner also is around 300pts, not much of a points denial
What would you do against a list with 3 units of GG and 1 unit of Black Knights, Zombies and Corpse Carts, avoid everything but zombies?
When I use the Banner of Hellfire I prefer to put it in Spear Skeletons or a precision unit like Black Knights or Blood Knights wear I get to pick the battle.
Not an experienced vamp player, but I can talk about some simple logistical stuff. I'd like to point out that while that unit of Grave Guard is a respectably efficient killing machine, it's nothing to balk at. In my opinion it's because of one thing: the number of attacks.
S6 and Killing Blow Re-rolling to hit should not be laughed at, and you've even got flaming attacks in case you're facing regeneration. But the max number of models you can kill is 5. I don't want to do all the math right now but judging from games I've played this type of unit with its 5 attacks, and a, say, Dark Elf spearmen unit with it's 10 or so attacks could very possibly kill the exact same amount of enemy Rank 'n' File troopers.
So it would seem like this unit should be hunting down the elite of the enemy army hoping to knock out heavy cavalry, plate mail infantry, or models with more than one wound. If you want to use it for this purpose, than I would advise against a unit that is 20 strong, since you can just bring back the ones that died.
I'd advise cutting the unit size down to 10 and making it a Hammer unit that works in unison with some zombies/skeletons on the flank to smash the good units that most players deploy to protect their flank.
I didn't mention their ASF because the bound spell's power level is only 3. Most players could throw a single dispell dice at that, or two if they know they're gonna fight the grave guard that round.
Logistically speaking your sort of right, but from experience I know that units that size don't work as well, and that 15---> is the way to go. Adding a Wight King into the units makes it a good points denying units, while also giving it that bit more punch that makes them great