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  1. #1
    Member Regnal's Avatar
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    Vampire Bunker List

    I've recently heard a lot about VC bunker lists. What would one of these look like and what's the big deal with them? I understand the basic concept of burrying your General in units but how can you make it effective?


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    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    A lot of people play the VC bunker-list. It's not just the general being buried in a regiment in the back row. It's usually far more complex, and doesn't always have to be your General who's in the back row. The best example of a vampire bunker list is usually:

    Grave Guard regiment w/ Great Weapons, Strigos/Warbanner/Legion/Barrows a BSB with the D.Hof banner.
    this regiment is equipped to be terrifying on it's own, but it's about to get a lot worse

    Corpse Cart
    now gives the regiments nearby (including the GG) ASF

    Vampire in a Skeleton Regiment w/ Helm of Commandment
    now the GG are hitting on 3s or even 2s if the they have the Barrows.

    If that vampire is a Lord, it could be the nasty caster-vamps that people tend to run. It could be something as nasty as a
    MoBA, Dark Acolyte, MoD, Skull-Staff, Helm combo.
    This makes for a massive caster who is going to be able to bring up skeletons well beyond their starting value with a massive 6 dice at his disposal and a huge casting bonus. Unfortunately, this vampire doesn't have much protection, so people tend to throw them deep in the ranks to make sure that they aren't picked off.

    The reason that people cry about this army, is that the general is hidden (cowardly), and is maximizing the army's most powerful rule: raising beyond starting. Every casting of IoN will be at least PL5, making it almost impossible to stop with any normal number of dispel dice. The cheesiest player will keep their regiments fairly slow-moving, to give the maximum number of "boost" turns, and to deny VPs from outriders like Knights, Bats, and Wolves. There are few lists who can kill models fast enough to deplete regiments, so even a shooting list will be in trouble since they can't earn any VP through shooting, and the VC still have ways to kill at a range. It's just a bad way to lose a game. In a tournament, it's even worse because the denied VP can make the difference between finishing in the Top5.

    The only way to combat the list is to overwhelm it with LoS-less magic, shooting, or take regiments who can lay down some serious hurt in a single round. Few armies can do this, so many are stuck relying on failed "Look Out Sir!" rolls, and desperate charges to get SOME regiment into contact with that general to kill him.

    My VC tournament army operates on this principle. It's weakness in the tournament scene is that it doesn't generate Victory Points as fast as a combat-oriented army. I've been largely undefeated in the tournaments, but haven't always claimed first because in some games I only scored 200-400vp, even though I gave away none. It's a nasty, despicable list, but it's the nature of the game.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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    Senior Member Wafflebob's Avatar
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    Sarathai pretty much nailed it on the head. It's a very powerful list, but not very sportsman-like and you will rarely get a massacre with it, It's pretty much build just to maximize your chances at winning.

    And it's not without his weaknesses, as he already detailed. A couple more are template weapons. I've seen warpfire throwers and rock launchers cut great swaths through the protecting units in short order. I've also once watched a game where a bunker was totally decimated by rocket battery fire.
    Tomb Scorpion Kill Counter: Gotrek Gurnisson, Empire Cannon Crew=3, Blood Knights=2, Saurus Cavalry=5, Saurus Warriors=3, Razordons=3, Skink warriors=7, Jezzails=8, Poison Wind Globadiers=10, Warp Lightning Cannon=1

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    Member Regnal's Avatar
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    I came up with this bunker list after reading your excellent replies. Not to sure what to do with my other characters. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

    Vampire Lord
    Skull Staff
    Helm of Commandment
    Dark Acolyte
    Lord of the Dead
    Master of the Black Arts

    As stated above by Sarathai, he sits back in a unit of skellys and supports the GG infront.

    Vampire
    Wristband of Black Gold
    Talisman of Lycni
    Hunter in the Dark
    Avatar of Death (Greatweapon)

    This vampire gets in behind the enemy force to deal with chariots or warmachines. He can also summon zombies in behind the enemy to slow them down, giving the Lord precious time to summon.

    Vampire
    Skabscrath
    Nightshroud
    Beguile
    Infinite Hatred

    Makes my GG unit terror causing due to Skabscrath. Also used to accept challenges and hopefully deal with the enemy rather quickly in order to protect the BSB.

    Wight King
    BSB - Drakenhof

    Need I say more?

    Core
    Skeleton Warriors x 12
    War Banner
    Champion

    House the Lord.

    Skeleton Warriors x 10

    Skeleton Warriors x 10

    Corpse Cart
    Unholy Lodestone

    Wasn't sure which stone to put on it. Decided to go with the extra wounds.

    Special
    Grave Guard x 23
    Banner of the Barrows
    Champion

    With the two heroes will be a 5x5 unit of pain.

    Black Knights x 5
    Standard of Hellish Vigour
    Barding

    Wasn't sure what to do with the extra points left over so decided to go with a fast hard hitting unit.

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    Senior Member Akaroth's Avatar
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    I personally go with the Strigos standard on my GG, just a bit cheaper and then you won't need hatred on the vamp in the unit saving you more points, which I'd use for another black knight. If you wanted a hard hitting unit though vargulfs are always good, could swap the black knights for one of those maybe.
    "Knights had no meaning in this game. This wasn't a game for knights."


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    Member skelesaver's Avatar
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    this is the first time i've heard of the bunker list and now i know, it's just so much evil in such a small list

    i like it though
    ----------
    this is the first time i've heard of the bunker list and now i know, it's just so much evil in such a small list

    i like it though

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    Senior Member 2000AD's Avatar
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    There's also the Blood Knight Bunker list which is something like:

    EDIT: (at 2000pts)

    Count Manfredd with Skull Staff and Book of Arkhan on mount (or other Lord)
    Wight King BSB with Drakenhoff Banner on mount

    2 other characters, normally vampires for more magical support and versatility

    3 units of minimal core

    3xfell bats

    6xBlood Knights, full command, Banner of Blood Keep (Manfredd and BSB in here)


    The Blood Knights are hard enough that you don't really need a combat lord. Manfredd is my preference as he can take both the Skull Staff and the Book of Arkhan on top of his already awesome magic. Use him to boost up the fell bats and raise units of zombies (on 4+ so 1 dice casting is possible) to block off the knights from frenzy charges you don't want to do and Van Hels to get the ones you do want.
    With a save of 2+/4+/4+ against shooting the knights (and manfredd and the BSB ) are likely to survive to get into combat and if you do take some casualties Manfredd is going to be raising them back on 3+.
    It puts the enemy in a Catch 22 as it's a nasty unit that'll eat most of the other things in Warhammer, but at the same time it's around 1300 points of the army, so if they're wanting VPs they're going to have to try and take it on.
    While it's a nasty unit it is by no means unbeatable and smart play is needed to make sure it meets it's potential and doesn't get suckered into a bad combat, static combat res still means that some below average dice will crumble your guys. A scroll or 2 is a good idea in case the opponent makes a good casting roll on Spirit of the Forge or any other big nasty spell.

    You have all of your eggs in one basket, but it's an iron plated basket that has the potential to carve through just about anything like a hot knife through butter.
    2000AD's answer to all "How do VC deal with ..." questions: Forbidden Lore + 2 Power Stones.
    Further answers will require more vodka.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Wafflebob's Avatar
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    The bloodknight deathstar is a very powerful build, the only real problem is the whole eggs in one basket issue. Their biggest weaknesses are flank and rear charges, war machines (if they line up poorly) and other hard hitting units.

    One of my friends runs this as his standard list and I've seen it fail a few times. Night goblin fanatics wiped them out once, they crumpled under a grail knight charge once or twice as well.
    The only time I beat them is when they lined up all nice and pretty for a warp lightning cannon shot and I got lucky on str 8.
    Tomb Scorpion Kill Counter: Gotrek Gurnisson, Empire Cannon Crew=3, Blood Knights=2, Saurus Cavalry=5, Saurus Warriors=3, Razordons=3, Skink warriors=7, Jezzails=8, Poison Wind Globadiers=10, Warp Lightning Cannon=1

  10. #9
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regnal View Post
    Vampire Lord
    Skull Staff
    Helm of Commandment
    Dark Acolyte
    Lord of the Dead
    Master of the Black Arts

    As stated above by Sarathai, he sits back in a unit of skellys and supports the GG infront.
    Just remember that you have NO SAVE WHAT-SO-EVER. It's a toss up, some players don't mind not having any armor, but I like to give my Lord the Flayed Hauberk, just because I'm paranoid. Then she grabs the Staff of Sorcery in place of the Skull Staff. Some people like to cast IoN at PL5+ though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Regnal View Post
    Vampire
    Wristband of Black Gold
    Talisman of Lycni
    Hunter in the Dark
    Avatar of Death (Greatweapon)

    This vampire gets in behind the enemy force to deal with chariots or warmachines. He can also summon zombies in behind the enemy to slow them down, giving the Lord precious time to summon.
    Cool on paper, but usually the scout vamps get blown away by shooting (even with the WBG) or they fluff in combat thanks to low numbers of attacks and only having 2wounds. Maybe try for the same build, but stick him in a regiment of hounds? I'd consolidate him for a second good caster, so that rather than "buy time" for casting, he can just make the process faster.


    Quote Originally Posted by Regnal View Post
    Vampire
    Skabscrath
    Nightshroud
    Beguile
    Infinite Hatred

    Makes my GG unit terror causing due to Skabscrath. Also used to accept challenges and hopefully deal with the enemy rather quickly in order to protect the BSB.
    No real need for this guy to handle challenges. Just put a champion in the GG regiment. If he dies, you can IoN him back. Again, you could make this guy a caster, or you could keep him on as a nasty CC booster.



    Quote Originally Posted by Regnal View Post
    Wight King
    BSB - Drakenhof

    Need I say more?
    I'd give this guy a mount, just to give him a save. People can still target him even if he's not in a challenge. You can get the points for the mount by dropping the GG he'll displace from the second rank. It's expensive, but this is something which I do differently- I take a Vampire as my BSB. I run:
    Vampire BsB w/ Banner of The Hoff,
    but then I give him powers, usually some combination of AoD/DK, DA, SH, WD, to boost the unit in combat. It gives me another caster (always nice) and spares me having to use a second vampire in the unit as a "booster".


    Quote Originally Posted by Regnal View Post
    Core
    Skeleton Warriors x 12
    War Banner
    Champion

    House the Lord.
    The lord is in the back, away from combat. Drop the standard bearer and warbanner, and drop a skeleton (two ranks of 6 w/ lord in). You could drop the champion if you wanted, but I like to keep him in there "just in case". It's just cheaper to skim away the non-essential elements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regnal View Post
    Skeleton Warriors x 10

    Skeleton Warriors x 10
    Just as a disclaimer- I'm not responsible for any small units lost to shooting/magic in turn1. That being said, the only thing which I do differently is add a champion and a standard bearer in these units. They need the help since they don't have vampires in them. Besides, every casting of IoN will replenish your champion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regnal View Post
    Corpse Cart
    Unholy Lodestone
    Wasn't sure which stone to put on it. Decided to go with the extra wounds.[/QUOTE]
    Unholy Lodestone only adds 1 guy to each casting of IoN. It's helpful, but if I'm going to spend the points at all, I go for Balefire. Otherwise, the Cart is just a nice Boundspell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regnal View Post
    Special
    Grave Guard x 23
    Banner of the Barrows
    Champion

    With the two heroes will be a 5x5 unit of pain.
    Wow, huge unit. I usually only run about 14+BSB, and give them the banner of the Dead Legion. With a focused IoN and all that attention, it's rare to lose the entire regiment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Regnal View Post
    Black Knights x 5
    Standard of Hellish Vigour
    Barding

    Wasn't sure what to do with the extra points left over so decided to go with a fast hard hitting unit.
    Usually in my lists, I manage to get a regiment of Blood Knights and/or Wraiths into the mix, so I'm not sure where you're coming up short. Black Knights would be good though, or maybe even wraiths as a flanker. The list looks good as is though- to me it looks "friendly" rather than an out-and-out cheesebomb.
    This is the most recent version of my 2,250pt Bunker that I have posted to the forum. I've modified it somewhat since then, but this will give you an idea of my methods.
    (2250 Magic- Unfriendly)
    >>HERE<<


    2000AD- a list like that is good, normally called a Deathstar though, but it's the same idea. It's even more centralized than the Bunker unit, since you're only focusing on 1 regiment, but it is an "all eggs in one basket" situation.

    Wafflebob- It's true that a regiment could be wiped out by magic, fanatics, rockets, or bad rolling. That's the nature of WHFB, and thankfully what keeps it from being as tilted as 40k. There is a way to deal with everything that you can come up with, the question is- how many armies can reasonably deal with such a threat? Only one army has access to the Helstorm, and only one army has access to Fanatics, and those are choices which the general must make. A bunker list is one of the toughest lists the VC have to offer. It can be beaten, but that doesn't make it a bad idea at all.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  11. #10
    Senior Member Wafflebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
    Wafflebob- It's true that a regiment could be wiped out by magic, fanatics, rockets, or bad rolling. That's the nature of WHFB, and thankfully what keeps it from being as tilted as 40k. There is a way to deal with everything that you can come up with, the question is- how many armies can reasonably deal with such a threat? Only one army has access to the Helstorm, and only one army has access to Fanatics, and those are choices which the general must make. A bunker list is one of the toughest lists the VC have to offer. It can be beaten, but that doesn't make it a bad idea at all.
    I would say that all the armies could reasonably deal with the threat, the main question is whether or not the player fielded the tools he needed and whether or not they realize that they have the tools they need. I know a lot of players at tournaments have started to add anti-vamp stuff to their standard lists.
    Tomb Scorpion Kill Counter: Gotrek Gurnisson, Empire Cannon Crew=3, Blood Knights=2, Saurus Cavalry=5, Saurus Warriors=3, Razordons=3, Skink warriors=7, Jezzails=8, Poison Wind Globadiers=10, Warp Lightning Cannon=1

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