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  1. #1
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    Advice vs Dwarfs, 2250pts

    Well, got a game coming up against dwarfs in the national league and frankly, I've got no idea how to go about it. My first thought is some big blocks. supported by some fast movers. I'm not entirely sure wheter to bring Vargulfs and wraiths, as dwarfs can get quite a lot of ranged attacks to counter these units. I'm guessing he'll bring some anti-magic to help shut down my magic phase (limited to 10pd due to restrictions). So, what should I bring? Some units of ghouls and some GG, supported by some bk's? A bunch of big ghoul units he can't shoot away? Of course, my main problem with this is, he'll probably bring some blocks of his own, which gives him a good chance of outfighting my own units, at least if I only charge with one. Advice appreciated


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  3. #2
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    Wow 10pd limit...

    Are Dispel Dice limited too otherwise the rules have just nullified alot of VC's strengths.

    I suppose if there was a 6 DD limit it might be fair.

    Dwarfs can be really bad news for VC. Wraiths can quickly be eliminated by runed weapons and warmachines.

    And if they can set up a static gun line on a hill he will dwindle your army faster than you can raise it back, especially with a 10pd limit.

    I'd say minimize your pd all the way and go really combative vampires. Use Fell Bats to tie up shooter units, Quarellers and Thunderers so that you can buy time to advance, since you won't be able to cast VanHel's to help you there since the limited power dice. Book of Arkhan may help. You may be able to try and advance with wraiths to tie up these units...maybe spirit hosts?

    Another way would have you use all 10 pd and as many bound spells as possible so that your opponent would use dispels on the bounds while you finally be allowed to get off the IoN's needed for a raising army.

    Still gunlines can cut strong units to ribbons. GG with hand weapons and shields could be your friend 4+ save v shooting, Vahrgulf maybe but most Dwarf armies have at least one Warmachine with a rune of Fire for Regeneraters and Treemen.

    Good Luck to you

  4. #3
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    A pd limit, well that makes it tricky.

    Howmany points are we talking about? Edit: O, 2250, I see now.

    About dwarfdispell dice, dwarfs can get to 6 DD really quikly and pretty cheap, but above that it'll be costly to get more, because dwarfs can only get more DD from their runesmiths (1 DD) or runelords (2 DD ) and those are pretty expensive. You will propably be looking at 6 or 7 dispelldice, and maybe he will have the +1 to dispell rune. If he's nasty, he will have 2 magicdefence runes combined and +3 to dispell :p but that's very expensive, a few hundred points in total.

    With 10 Pd you can get some IoN off, and if you use some boundspells too, shouldn't be a problem to get a bit of magic through. A good idea against dwarfs is to give their artillery a lot of targets to shoot at. Take a couple of fellbats and batswarms and a unit of wraiths isn't that bad either. Dwarfs can have magic warmachines, but unless he has a grudge thrower ( stone thrower ) with runes on it, all of his warmachines can only shoot 1 wraith at the time ( a cannon maybe 2 if they are behind eachother ) .

    He will try to eliminate your general obviously and he might possibly do that with overwhelming shooting at his unit. I advice the wristbands of black gold, a 3+ ward against any shooting attacks.
    But just as he will try to kill your general, you must try to kill runesmiths to weaken his magic defense.

    Don't bother on bringing heavily armoured troops to withstand the barrage of fire. A 4+ armoursave is as nothing against dwarfs. Cannons, grudgethrowers and boltthrowers nullify your armoursave, organguns give a -3 modifier, flamecannons -2 ( I'm pretty sure you won't see that one though, hardly anyone uses it, especially against an army Immune to Psychology ) , thunderers -2 too and quarrelers "only" -1

    You'll be looking at massive numbers that keep coming and he can't kill fast enough. When you are close enough, summon zombies behind his blocks/on his artillery hill. Those can rear charge the blocks, giving you +2 for rear and him -2 or -3 for the loss of his ranks. Even if he kills 5 zombies in the rear ( unlikely, one always misses ) he is still 5 pts behind on combatres. ( Use the Sceptre de Noirot to summon 10 zombies, making it a lot more effective ) And you can also use the zombies to tie up his missiletroops and warmachines.

    Try rearcharging warrior blocks and destroy those first. Those are weaker, and all other dwarf troops have str 4, and will chop zombies apart with ease.

    Looking at the points, you could consider taking a vampire, dumping him on a hellsteed or something, or give him the fly ability ( I say hellsteed though, gives you a save and an extra attack ) move him in from the side behind some cover, as close as possible, and then charge his warmachines. The trick is that you have to make him chose what to shoot. If he shoots you vampire on hellsteed, his warmachines are safe, but your army can get closer, and your fellbats and such as well.
    Last edited by The bearded one; October 21st, 2009 at 14:01.

  5. #4
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    Sorry this is so long!




    Your best bet may be to take an Abyssal Terror or splurge on a Dragon. The one thing Dwarves cannot do is move. Fly behind some terrain and hit them in the flank as soon as possible with your Dragon. Without their rank bonus they'll collapse.

    You need to avoid his lord, if he has one. As a Dwarf player, I like making my lord great
    at beating face - the rest of the army ties you up or shoots you while my lord starts hammering away. Especially if I knew I was fighting vampires, I would just take the Master Rune of Swiftness, Rune of Attack, and the rune that doubles my strength against T5. That combination is 70 points, and will smash through troops and heroes alike, charge or not. However, he may bring an Anvil of Doom, and won't have a Dwarf lord, which may or may not be worse.

    What's really scary is the PD limit. Now you really can't rely on magic, either. If I were playing against a VC army, I would definitely consider bringing an Anvil of Doom. I now have 7 Dispel Dice, and I can stop your movement or make myself immune to fear. Plus, the Rune of Balance takes one of your 10 PD and gives it to me. For about 350-400 points, we now have almost the same number of power and dispel dice, and I have something that can hit you anywhere on the board in the shooting phase or nullify your fear effects.

    However, if he does this, he may not have anything really capable of taking out a Dragon. That may free you up from worrying about the lord, although he'll probably have some war machines with your name on them regardless.

    You can do a couple things to get around this. First, take the summoning powers to get that extra +1. If he has to roll 2 dice to dispel you, he's losing his advantage. Second, make sure you have bound spells. Corpse Carts, the Book of Arkhan - anything that will make him have to decide what spell to defend against. It's also a good way to get around the PD restriction. The Blood Drinker is almost a necessity - it will be much simpler to raise back your unit if you don't give him a chance to dispel it.


    Another thing to watch out for - Gyrocopters will blast away at your skeletons, so watch for those - it may be worth it to take a Rod of Flaming Death to either eat his dispel dice or shoot a Gyrocopter. Ghouls will be a little safer, since they're T4.


    In fact - you may want to just use ghouls, rather than skeletons. All of the Dwarven shooting has at least -1 to armor, and -2 in the case of thunderers. At least they have to wound the ghouls on 4s.


    Definitely try and make one of your heroes a scout, and get into combat ASAP with his war machines. If you can start knocking them off, you'll easily make back your points and free your army up from getting shot to death.


    If you have any ethereal units, consider leaving them at home. Most Dwarven war machines are magical, and an accurate stone thrower will take out an entire unit of troops - even wraiths - in one shot.

  6. #5
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    I have to agree with Draconia.


    I am normally an all skeleton player, but this is certainly a circumstance where I agree ghouls have the edge, and with the PD limitation, ghouls will fair better than zombies even in the long run (actually, by a lot since ghouls can potentially win combat against dwarves just make sure you rank em big 20+) In fact I think you could argue for quite a large ghoul contingent in this battle.

    The attacks will hit first and the poison gives you the chance to negate dwarves otherwise potent armor. I am loathe to say it but Ghouls all the way in this fight.

    Once again it proves the uneneding Skeles vs. Ghouls vs. zombies is simply a situational issue. There will be times when one is certainly superior, but never always superior.

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    Sorry..I had some screwy things happening with comp and quintuple posted
    Last edited by D'yanoi; October 22nd, 2009 at 23:37.

  8. #7
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    Sorry again
    Last edited by D'yanoi; October 22nd, 2009 at 23:38.

  9. #8
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    And again
    Last edited by D'yanoi; October 22nd, 2009 at 23:38.

  10. #9
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    And again.
    Last edited by D'yanoi; October 22nd, 2009 at 23:39.

  11. #10
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    Last Repeated post Deleted, once again I'm quite sorry.
    Last edited by D'yanoi; October 22nd, 2009 at 23:40.

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