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Well boys, how do we as the legions of undead stop this monster from eating through us. As I've played against some dragons already including a kitted out prince on a star dragon and each time they have eating through my rear ranks from turn two.
how many points? if its 3000 or more i'd simply say Frostblade, if not then it's not so simple, first you have to tie it up for a bit, some fellbats work well, invo their brains out, try and get the charge and then not die, next just get some grave guard with the banner of the undying legion to charge into him, hopefully you'll get 3 ranks, outnumber, and standard and if you're lucky the Guard could Killing blow one of them
To Sleep Tzeentch shall come for us all in the end.
Perchance to Dream To change the living, to the dead.
Big chunk of infantry, possibly Grave Guard to Killing Blow the rider. If not, go magic heavy, and you'll have no problem tying it up, even with Zombies.
5000p. High Elves
Dragon Prince has a reroleable 4+ armor save 4+ ward save, dragon has 3+ skin save. It's also played in a list where dampen magic is in play twice over so even invocation is power level 10.
Graveguard seem to be just a massive target for it. As they cant turn and fight it head on they get eaten alive. Even with Fellbats, lets say a 5 strong unit of them, it can easily take out 10 plus wounds including overall combat resolution. so the fellbats would be gone and then the dragon would fly into another unit and kill that right off. Invocation only works on units that are still around to have it cast on them.
there seems to be nigh on nothing that I can use to hurt it, and the elements that can hurt it, black knights, blood knights, graveguard with great weapons, are either too slow, too easily baited elsewhere, too low of weapon skill even with helm of command, or too fragile. It's eaten alive nearly everything i've thrown at it. Even if it is like 600 points, i would have to throw nearly double that at it to even scratch it.
Moreover, tar pitting it with zombies doesn't work as even if I get off raise dead and an invocation I won't get a vanhells on it to charge it as it will just fly away from the zombies.
Last edited by Hito; December 16th, 2009 at 08:39.
You just need a fully ranked up unit with a banner and champion. You turn them around to face the dragon in the movement phase and in the magic phase cast Vanhells on them. Once in combat the rest is pretty simple. During your turn you challenge the rider (he can't refuse) this only allows him and the dragon to kill the champion and at best tie you because you have the full +5 for 3 ranks, banner, outnumber. This causes you to win or tie the first round of combat with only losing the champion from the unit. During his combat phase he will kill around 6 guys, then you will loose another to crumble. At the start of your next turn your unit is only down 8 guys. Cast invocation on them and get them back to full strength, 2-3 times is all it will take. Repeat this challenge and summon combo for as long as you want. This will lock down the star dragon for the rest of the game easily. I personally run tomb kings, but the technique remains the same. Just swap Vanhells for the incantation of urgency and swap invocation for incantation of summoning. I have killed a star dragon this way by causing him to flee and them charging him in my following phase with my flying skirmisher unit so he ran off the board. The champion is the key to this because he allows you to eliminate one round of casualties from the unit due to the fact that the mount and rider must target him in the challenge.
not to be a spoil sport, but your enemy does have DD and will probably see your ploy, and stop you from invoking. That is even if you can cast it after it being dampened.
Exactly, when he specificly targets my vanhells so I cannot cast it I can never charge the dragon, only get charged.
They are all necromancy spells, just keep casting it until he runs out of DD. As a general rule, if Vampire counts can't out magic their opponent, then they are in BIG trouble. I am assuming that you run enough vampires that more than 1 will have vanhells on average. Keep in mind that you can cast all of your vampires with vanhells, then if he stops that, cast your other vampires powers and at the end of the phase, pop the book of arkhan out if he used up his dice. You can also just summon zombies to surround your important units with a wall of them. If he cannot place the dragon model, then he cannot charge you. On your turns just summon a wall of zombies in between yourself and the dragon such that he cannot land next to your important unit to flame or charge them.
Catch it with a Wolf trap(7 DWs with a doom wolf, though I perfer to start with 8 ). Add in a barrage of PD with Creatures of the dead power and you've got a keeper. Also, fell bats with a helm of commandment is alot of fun. Since creatures of the night work with both you'll have a laugh as he desperately tries to beat his way out the situation(with helm he'll need 4s to hit). Large target = he may be able to see you but you can see him as well.
This will help you swamp it down and either hold it or run it down through static CR, or just enough to smash something big and nasty into the flank/rear preferbly a big unit of infantry for a nice +2 CR for rear and full ranks, banner and outnumber.
If we're talking 2k-2,250pts he wont have a very strong magic defence. If he has he will have alot of points in characters and as such, few units you need to worry about which means above maneuvers easier to pull off.
Granted he may try to play points denial with you but if he does keep positioning yourself so every charge he makes means he will get flanked/rear charged in return. This will force him to think twice, even landing to breathe on you means he'll subject himself to danger. Especially if you've got fell bats and LotNight ready as him being a large target now is a liability for him. Charge, helm the fell bats, swamp him without the need for a danse to pull it off. Make him doubt his every move. Use cover, as well. Create 'Death Zones' where landing is going to be a real gamble for him.
You can also resort to magic, especially in the form of death or beasts. The hilarity of watching his big nasty dragon being glued to the ground. This will hamper your Danse capabilities some, but just bring another vampire with the book of arkhan and a necro with 2 x power stones to make up for it. Having it anchored to the ground is very useful, but also do not forget if cast on him while in combat the dragon will refuse to fight. All of the sudden it is just a suprised elf ontop of a scared dragon.
Death have the sniper-spell(which bring our dear vampire up another wound and his inevitable dragon armour wont do a thing as opposed to the metal sniper-spell). The spell is abit short ranged with 12" but as it does not require any to wound rolls it is a sure wound on the dragon(as the character will have a ward) and other very useful damage spells S4 magic missiles VS t3 = fun. Also, dont forget the doom and darkness spell if you win combat through static CR and with -3 to his LD it is almost a sure break. Then there is Drain life which can hurt alot on elves, especially if going cavalry heavy or elite infantry. Death overall is painful for HE.
Beasts are more of a support lore but have the awesome beasts covers as well as the bolt thrower spell, also dont forget the bears anger spell which works wonder on our characters as they all are us1. The movement spell is nice too, if limited compared to VDM.
Do not take Lore of Fire, he will probably be immune.
Not saying it will be easy, it is one hell of a beast to bring but I've found these bag of tricks sometimes does the job. Naturally it will be hard to do all this at once(and I wouldnt try) but might give you some idea on bring this starchild down.
Dampen magic, or drain magic should not be hard to dispell. You should have complete magic superiority if his lord slot does not occupy a lord level wizard. If it goes off twice, you need to re-evalute your magic defence strategy because that should not happend. If your opponent has alot of magic, go after his mages and tie up the dragon last. Might be worth fielding a Corpse Cart with balefire and use a magic kitted count with the staff. It is going to be really annoying for him to get anything through at all.
Cheers, hope this helps!
""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.
star dragons are nasty but i think our army has it pretty close to the easiest to take care of it, you will need 7 dire wolves with a doom wolf, and a full ranked unit of skeletons with the warbanner, and if you really want to win use a bsb, with the walking death. my normal high elf opponent is very good with dispeling so i don't count on magic to actually get through so when it does it is a nice suprise, that said i don't count on van hels. my deployment is normally very cramped so it is easy to get the skeletons i need to where they need to be in a turn, when the skeleton unit with the warbanner and bsb are close enough to charge the star dragon i use the dire wolves charge challange. oh star dragon is stuck in combat against at least one dog, elf turn he kills dogs, my turn i charge with the skeletons, now this is the careful part postion your vamp on the outside of the unit and make sure you hit him with the other 4 models in base contact with the dragon, you don't want the star dragon to have a tasty meal in case he passes his break test a few times. during combat you challange with skeletons. even if he gets max overkill he will lose, 3 ranks numbers banner warbanner bsb and walking death, so he will lose by at least 2, which puts him at about a 50/50 chance of running. if you helm that unit or give the bsb the regen banner he will lose by about 5 each turn. he will run, and then charge him off the board with fell bats. well that is my answer to everything that isn't unbreakable. send in the static res skeletons make em run then run em down with fast stuff. hope that helps. oh and i use skeletons because nobody really expects skeletons to win combat (you shoulda seen my ogre opponent last week when he sent his tyrant with his iron gut's into my skeletons and bounced off of them like it was cool, and he rolled well and didn't wiff, i just made most of my regen), but if you want to use grave guard that is even better by the way.