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I'm in the process of building a vc army and am faced with the dilemma of how i should use the one rare slot in my 1500 point list; put in a Varghulf or 5 Cairn Wraiths with a Tomb Banshee. the way i see it is the Varghulf can be a great utility unit or an all rounder and the Cairn Wraiths are good at flanking and putting some serious hurt on the enemy. I'm just looking for some advice on which to take.
I am the powerful, and intelligent, wizard; Morfumax.- Pvt. Michael J. Caboose, Blue Army
I think it would depend upon the rest of the army's composition. If you have a magic heavy force that creates beasts on the fly, the Varghulf would add some serious mobility. However if you are running CC Vamps with skellies or ghouls, the Cairn Wraiths with a Banshee are devastating. You can easily set them in the middle of your main line and take shots at whatever is fighting with your main force. Even better, they can tie up heavy hitting units (like Chaos Warriors or Knights of the Grail.)
I would say the Cairn though honestly, you don't have any shooting as a VC player, so get the enjoyment of the phase using the Banshee!
0/0/0 Dark Eldar 0/0/0 Skaven0/0/0 Chaos Dwarfs
Starting on January 1st 2010
It will all depend on your composition. Varghulf are excellent for using on flanks. It is a great hitter. You still cannot leave him stranded and only send him in as support against a unit you know you will not lose against because negative CR is not your friend. Wraiths with a banshee are excellent. You can hide them in terrain or just have them drift behind a unit and use them to scream. You do not have to have line of sight for the banshee's wail and so long as they are not in CC you can direct your wail at any unit within 8". CC means that you can use the wail only on the unit you are fighting at the time. Either rare unit is handy as support. You have a better chance with a banshee inflicting wounds on harder targets simply because you are rolling on their leadership rather than trying to hit and wound and hope they don't have a great AS. But, it can simply be a matter of what play style you would prefer.
it also depends which army you're fighting, if the army has many low leadership-units then the banshee can be very destructive (like tomb king skeleton regiments...)
not much input i know, but hey ;-)...
Well Robot i hope this helps since most games ur not suppose to know who you play and most VC armies are the same.
Every time i field the fing Varg....... It either gets owned, or it dies due to combat rez, this thing in my option is a piece of crap. If it could fly id be down, but it cant beat anything that i play, Skaven own it, Bret own it, Deamons laugh at it, lizard kill it, and Ogres even own it..... and thats bad. I have had such little luck with this thing and its always to fast for my usualy army.
With that said, every game big or small i field a banshee with 3 wraiths. My friends have grown to fear her she has a nickname "Lazer Witch" which we all laugh about. Every game that squad kills off heros a targets i dont really want to deal with and is easy worth her points. Last game 2v2 she killed Bret hero, Then a squad of knights and held up the screaming bell and Storm Verman for 2 turns until help arrived while weaken the squad.
i love my Lazer Witch and without a dought she is prob one of the few reason's I enjoy VC, besides being able to raise stuff
Good Luck and have fun!
8th Ed WOOT
How do you kill so many characters with your banshee Zombie? doesn't your opponent keep there characters in units? or does he just leave them outside of units to die?
I find the vargulf great, he can hunt war machines with ease, great for scary units as he causes terror, and is very hard hitting. Although you can't send him in to kill a fully ranked up unit alone, like skaven or anything that has 5 combat res for starting, but he does make an amazing addition to any combat, if your ghouls, skeletons, grave guard, whatever are stuck in combat something with ranks and maybe a banner, then stick your vargulf in there and watch him snatch up a few kills and tip the skale in your favour for combat.
He works so much better over the other rare choices because he is very cheap compaired to blood knights, sure he doesn't hit as hard, but he is also close to half the points of them depending on what you give the blood knights. When compaired to wraiths, he is far more reliable when it comes to kills, ass he has a higher weapon skill and hatred, and the the same strength, and he is pretty much cheaper than a unit of wraiths since most people will add another 2 wraiths and maybe a banshee for breaking ranks. The durability is in question a bit since if you have magical attacks against wraiths they go down very quickly, but if you don't then they can stick around for a while, while the varghulf has regen and a high toughness.
All in all I think the the varghulf is your best choice for rares. cost effective, durable and hard hitting, just learn how to use him right and he will be an mvp almost every game for you, i know mine is more often than not.
I like to field regiments of 5 Cairn Wraiths as well, although I don't usually use the banshee. For all the more damage she does with her screaming attack, you can probably save the points and just get 3 GW attacks. I will warn that it seems most people prefer to field 3 wraiths, as it is somehow seen as 'superior' to 5.
If your list features a lot of vampires, with a lot of magic, you might doing well with Wraiths. People aren't stupid- they'll throw magic at your wraiths and without armor, they'll kill quite a few. They need to be protected, as they're either an extremely powerful regiment, or an easy 250pts.
The Varghulf is a good model for those armies that lack high numbers of vampires for march-allowance, or who focus more on close combat or possibly even speed. A varghulf can take some punishment with it's regeneration, and flaming attacks are more rare than magical ones, so you can count on having your regen. Of course, you can also count on the poor blighter to catch a cannonball or warmachine hit any time the enemy can get a fair shot off.
The best 'all-round' unit is the varghulf, if you're looking to buy only one unit right now. I would get wraiths eventually, but I've seen more armies include a varghulf than a regiment of wraiths. A varghulf can stand up to magic, and magical weapons, and hold up against mundane damage too, whereas wraiths are devastating against some armies, and a liability against others.
So many threads for the vc's concerning the rare slots that i have seen always pit one vs another of the rare choices, it is not that simple given that all 4 of the vc rare choices are amazing given that 6 wraiths are 300 a black coach is 200 varghulf is 175 and 4 blood knights with a champion and standard bearer with the standard of strigois (hatred banner) are 285. so starting off the wraiths are the most expensive
lets do this ike this
6 wraiths 12 T3 wounds no save- only magic attacks effect them
varghuf 4 T5 wounds regen
4 blood knights 4 T4 wounds 2+ armor save
black coach 4 T6 wounds 3+ armor save 4+ ward save - can be instanty killed by str 7+ can also become MR3 and ethereal
In my opinion the black coach is the toughest of the choices then i rank it varghulf then wraiths. Bood knights are in my opinion the least tough of the 4, with only haveing a T4 everything can hurt them and the 2+ save is not very good at all.
6 wraiths get 18 WS 3 S 5 attacks with great weapons
varghulf gets 5 WS 5 S 5 attakcs with hatred
4 blood knights get 13 WS 5 S 5 8 WS 3 S 4 attacks with hatred and lances so S7 on the charge
black coach gets 5 WS 3 S 4 attacks, plus d6 S 5 impact hits on the charge- may gain hatred and kiiling blow
in my opinion the blood knights are by far the deadliest of the 4 rare choices, next being the wraiths because of the sheer amount of S 5 attacks the black coach and vargie tie as a black coach should do better on the charge but varghulf will do better every other round with a higher WS and S.
6 wraiths M 6 etheral skirmishers
varghulf M 8 vampire monster
4 blood knights M 7 frenzied Vampire calvalry
black coach M 8 vampire chariot- may gain flying ethereal
the varghulf is the most mobile out of all of the rares until the black coach becomes flying the wraiths have great mobility as well. the blood knights and black coach both allow for marching around them but are a little more combersome around terrain until the black coach becomes flying and ethereal then it becomes the most mobile
the black coach - medium points high toughness medium to low killing ability medium low mobility-i use it as a big target for my enemy to shoot at as it is by far the most resilient thing in our army then if it becomes flying toward the end of the game i let it fly around and wreck havok
cairn wraiths - high points high killing ability medium durability medium high mobility these can also do massive damage and are a real pain for army's with a lack of magic can always bug out into terrain in order to stay somewhat safe little less of a liability than blood knights plus with the 360 line of sight and charge they can protect your flanks very well
blood knights - high points high killing ability low durability medium low mobility - can do massive damage even with only 4 models but they become a liability in most games as they are so vunerable and are so many points
varghulf - low points medium durability medium low killing high mobility - very cheap moderatly durable and devestating a great bang for your buck type unit that can assist in major combats or just solo soft easier targets and has the mobility to get to where it needs to be.
well i hope this helped these are my opininons about the vc rare choices there are alot of ways to play them, and i do take all of them pretty equally. if you are going against dwarves bring a black coach and some wraiths if you are going against the lizards the black coach is amazing, against empire all of them do amazing, against high elves don't bring the wraiths i would lean more toards the black coach or the varghulf, the blood knights wouldn't do that great either, as most things that you would get points enough to be worth there while would probably chop up enough knights before they got to go. Against wood elves bring a black coach or 2 and laugh at them. Against Chaos i would bring either blood knights or wraiths. Against Dark elves i would definetly bring a black coach or 2. Against orks i would bring anything. they are all gonna do there thing, especially wriaths, the black coach might not be as effective against the greenskins. Against Ogres i would bring Varghulf and wraiths or blood knigts, the black coach isn't gonna do as much against them, and they are gonna be able to hurt it.
hope this helps somebody out there, and hope it wasn't to much to read through.