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After hearing rumours and peoples beliefs on potential changes coming in 8th edition, it seems that VC time in the spotlight may come to an abrupt end.
One of the changes I've heard is that the game will be going back to percentages. Only 25% of your list can be characters, for example. This right here puts a huge damper on VC. My lord alone is generally (pun intended) over 400 pts, not including the other characters used.
Another big change is that charges no longer grant ASF and combat will always be resolved on initiative order. Our I3 undead will likely not be swinging first and with our toughness of 3, we may not get any attacks back once the enemy lays waste to our ranks.
Magic seems to be taking the biggest hit in 8th edition. Rumour has it players will only receive one dice in their pool in any magic phase. A roll of 1 on a single dice roll is a miscast. No more spamming Invocation on one dice. It is also rumoured that magic will be more random with a higher chance of miscasts and less access to casting dice.
With our slow undead, high points costs of characters, and a dependance on magic, the VC in 8th ed will require a huge overhaul in order to keep up with only a few of the speculations. 8th ed promises to be a huge change to Fantasy and it will be interesting to see how the new codices play out. It seems, however, that VC were given their glory and may require a lot more finesse in the new rule set. It may be time to dust off the WEs and main a new army when the VC feel the nerf hammer.
Any other opinions or rumours others have heard?
almost everything that's been rummored so far is bad news for our poor VC's...
- character % cap.
- no marching for models w/2+ or better save. (considering you want to armour your vampire/s, it could be pretty bad...)
- fight by initiative. (crap, the bulk of our army is I2/3!!!)
- fighting in 2+ ranks. (a great change untill you realise that we'll go second, and take twice as many casulties as a result...)
- fear & terror nerf. no more auto-break from fear and no more Ld test to charge fear-causing units.
- magic in general;
a) miscasting becoming easier! now you'll miscast if you fail to cast a spell twice in a row, and/or if there's multiple wizards in your army. miscasting also becoming alot more devastating too.
b) random power/dispel dice generation. could mean you might miss a magic phase altogether if you roll poorly... (game-breaking for an army that is centered around the magic phase!)
yep, 8th ed isn't looking too friendly towards the VC's right now... the fact that it's being writen by matt ward gives me nightmares since he's the culprit behind the monstrosity that is the daemon army.
now, there is also rummored to be a PDF that's forthcoming just before the release of 8th that will address issues some armies might have with the core rules... (hopefully this means we at least for example, might get a break and be given a larger % cap for characters?!?)
if it does turn out that the VC's end up getting over-nerfed then i've at least got my empire army to work on! i might even start-up my skaven as well?!
-Yes the % could hurt a little but it will hit everyone else just as much, also it is as yet not decided what the percentages will be.
-No marching for saves of +2 on cavalry...good thing we have movment spells then, and you could always just risk no barding on your black knights. With a rumoured dice roll bonus to charges, your still looking at second turn charge.
-fighting by Int...so just raise them back, failing that how many bound spells and necro spells have we got floating about to give us always strike first?
-Fighting in 2 ranks...awsome means some of my grave gaurd will get to attack considering i have 2 characters in the front rank, and as for ghouls thats loads of attacks, so im striking in Int order... makes very little difference to whats going on now.
- fear and terror is hit hard but there is that many immune to psych units/armies floating about that it would be nice to use the bonus to combat res.
- miscasting becomes easier but all it means is just throwing more dice at a single spell, so instead of one dice casting just use two.
-random dice generation...anywhere between 2 (which is what we get already!) and 12 power dice, + wizard levels....just how many dice are you looking for considering you get even more now? the worst you can do is roll a double one and generate the already exsisting pool.
general feeling Matt Ward is one of these guys who cant actualy play the game so makes rediculopus changes without any foresight inot game mechanics. He has an endless stream of books that when released have been so overpowered compared to exsisting books that the way all other armies play have to change to compensate for the one changed army. Because of his unbalanced rules in favour of new books GW loves him because of so many people wanting the next uber army, which he always produces at the cost of the game.
books by matt ward include; Orcs and Goblins...i remember how hard these guys became early on / Wood Elves...enough said / Daemons...probably the most over powered book ever seen (hopefully the "one save" rule in 8th eddition with less armour mods will balance things up a bit), and more recently branching into 40k with blood angels.
Regardless, the VC will require a big change in order to keep up with the new supposed ruleset.
I hope they hurt VC a little, forcing us to take "real sized" units of core. Counts look way better with 20-30 man units. People will stop bitching about VC and we can just play.
Agreed Matt Ward should go back to writing high school geography textbooks
Last edited by William Matthews; May 10th, 2010 at 22:42.
the rummored 25% cap really puts the hurt on just what kind of characters we can include, and could mean that a good portion of our force is left without the proper hero support... also, it's going to cut down on or magic production, which is bad news since we rely on our spells to help buff our troops...
also, magic is becoming far more unreliable & dangerous to spam, so we won't have nearly the same amount of raising spells as we currently rely on... plus, the enemy can try and dispel our ASF spells - the key point being that you can't rely on magic all the time. there will be alot of times where our core units especially could easily explode to the fightier units like chaos warriors, beastmen, daemons, witch elves, black guard, saurus etc...
[QUOTE=saltrock36;1688001]-Fighting in 2 ranks...awsome means some of my grave gaurd will get to attack considering i have 2 characters in the front rank, and as for ghouls thats loads of attacks, so im striking in Int order... makes very little difference to whats going on now.[QUOTE]
this is going to really nerf our already crappy core units... spear skellies may very well become the norm, but they're still very expensive for what you get.
plus, the enemy get the extra rank/s as well! just imagine what say, high elf spearmen attacking in 4 ranks will do?!! god forbid our core gets hit by anything really fighty!
sure we'll potentially get more ranks, but i highly doubt we'll be able to generate enough static combat res to overcome taking 12+ casulties on top of the enemy's SCR...
some of the rummored miscast results will lead to an even greater chance of our general dying and thus crippling the entire army! we don't need super random magic when our army is so closely tied to needing magic to function properly.
it can also work against us since if you roll really well for the pool, we could start taking even more flak about how dirty & cheesey the VC's are...
the big problem with alot of the 8th ed changes is that our book is so poorly designed to begin with... if you look at the VC army, it pretty much is designed to be character & magic-heavy while relying on a deathstar approch to win. our core units are just over-priced filler, and are simply there to tarpit while the grave guard/blood knights/wraiths/vamps tear the enemy to shreads...
however, most of the 8th ed rummors work against this type of army build, thus, while most other armies will ajust fairly well, the VC's are left with next to nothing thanks to our craptastically designed book!
I'm positive to the changes, especially when it comes to VC!
I don't need anyone to call out "Cheeeeeeeseeee" when I field them, but instead I like having a real challenge when playing WHFB. All-in-all, the game will be changed to a very high degree. Personally, I like being forced to re-think. I like being forced to change how I play sometimes, for that's what gives me the most experience.
VC will become a balanced army again!
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To be honest this is starting to sound scary to me. I am a brand new player with only 3 games to my belt. I chose VC since i like their fluff and i enjoy raising zombies to trap up my friends fast calvary long enough for my black knights to get a flank charge on them. I pray they totally don't kill VC since this is my only army at the moment have stuck a fair amount of my paychecks into it so i can play.