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First I thought that the magic of the vampires got a little weaker in the 8th edition, but then I just relizer how potent it is.
If I make a list of a vampure lord + 2 or 3 more vampires, I can give the lord "forbidden lore" and "dark acolyte", and give every vampire "master of the black arts". That way I get 4 or 6 more power dice, and since all power dice go to the same pool I can use them with the vampire lord.
What do you think?
To be honest i think all your going to need is a Vampire lord, a vampire and a necro, you dont need to give every vampire master of the lack arts, i think is going to be more than enough, the main thing is that a level 3 can still one dice IoN, the main difference is going to be that you dont have to spend you whole magic phase raising new models, you can use other spells, be it movement spells, gaze or whatever. Im certainly giving my lord fobidden lore!
I'd be VERY careful with casting on one dice in 8th edition though, as any caster that fails to cast a spell is unable to cast anymore that magic phase.
5000p. High Elves
a level 3 can single dice IoN so that isnt a problem, i believe its actually they may not attempt to caste the same spell again rather than any spell Vampire lore has low casting values for gaze 2D6 +3 if my lord was to it, im pretty sure i can roll 4+ on two dice, same with Dance.
The problem with rolling a single dice is that if you roll a 1 or 2 the casting automatically fails and that caster can't cast for the remainder of the phase.
What I found when I was playing using the new rules was that I could build a lord to be a +5 caster. This gave me great advantage over my opponent who only thought to bring a 2 up caster. (necro's are almost worthless imo now) Out side of that character what you could do is yes bring a 2 up vamp with MoBA and that would add to your pool. I would bring more Vamps with 2 ups and not anymore MoBA though. I think at the 25/25 I was able to write a list that gave me 2 extra dice every turn and I would get to roll 4 more dice for the "winds of magic" rule that would give more more power dice each magic phase on the roll of a 6. You can also every only have a max of 12 dice in your pool. Not to say you can use some dice and then gain back more that magic phase, but you can't ever go over. So you probably don't want to take too many of the MoBA options, and if your lord is a +5 up caster you probably won't find very many casters to match against you anyway. My long point being is that if you have all these MoBA floating around you're probably going to go over you max each turn anyway so why bother bringing them. As far as having to stop casting with a caster once he fails a cast.. well what I did was use my lord for higher lvl spells. Then use one of the 2 up vamps and cast IoN or whatever 1 dice spell I wanted to use until I ran out of dice and/or casters. I cast IoN 3 times in a row, I could have failed, but I didn't and I already had my heavy spells off anyway so whatever. OH and if you roll 2 dice and end up snake eyes, you fail in that case as well and further more a lvl 2 can single dice IoN. I'm almost some place around certain that you cannot cast at all with that caster once he has failed a spell.
Last edited by Painson; July 1st, 2010 at 06:07. Reason: miss count/unsure of rules currently
Sorry to say but if you fail a cast, that caster is done for the magic phase, not just that spell.
The benefit with MotBA is that you will always have at least 2 more dice then the average caster, unless you roll double six. This is good when you roll poorly on the winds of magic. Say you roll a 2 and a 1, well typically for Vampire Counts that would be a game imbalancing roll, especially if it happens turn 1 and 2 (good game, thanks for playing) or other critical times. Having 5 dice to 2 dispel is soooo much nicer than 3 to 2.
I am still concerned about bound spells eating up power dice. The only benefit of bound spells is that you may use up to 6 dice to cast them as well, and makes them really hard to dispel (Book of Arkhan seems wonderful now, as does Black Peraipt (a list "must have" imho)). I haven't played with a Corpse Cart using the new rules but Miasma of Deathly Vigor seems to have severely lost its punch, always strikes first just doesn't have the benefits it used to.
I hate to be a naysayer but I think a lot of the VC stuff got sooo gimped and made incredibly useless. I'm sure hoping the 8th Ed Updates to the armybook has some serious fixes, especially the Corpse Cart, since it is one of my favorite models.
Also, as to the original post of 1 Vampire Lords and 2 to 3 other vampires...good luck fitting 3 vampires into the 25% characters restriction 3 Vampires is about 550 to 600 points...so no 3 vampires in games under 2200 pts. That's where the beauty of Necromancers comes into play...yay for cheapness
Last edited by D'yanoi; July 1st, 2010 at 21:55.
25% of 2250 is 562points and you get 25% for Lords and 25% for Heros so you can easily pick up a lord and 3 heros but do you need to? With the new magic you are producing more PD with less wizards so you don't need as many wizards as you did previously.
Yes it sucks that bound spells requires PD but so does your opponents bound spells so this does not hurt vampires, it only changes how everyone plays.
ASF is the same except for great weapons but the real change is in how many models fight so for example our great weapon grave guard may strike last even with ASF but now they will strike in 2 ranks regardless of casualties. Fighting in 2 ranks is a much bigger change than ASF.
Before they had a precious 5-7 attacks you needed land first now we get at least 10 attacks regardless of when they strike so they don't need ASF like they used to.
Magic has changed immensely now and I think is more equal than it was before. You won't be seeing armies fielded with huge differences in magic anymore.
I love that all the lores got signature spells and that a lot of spells can be boosted.
Fear has also changed for the better making it more balanced, sure it sucks we can't auto break opponents now but should make for more interesting games.
Last edited by apbevan; July 2nd, 2010 at 00:45.
Most games are going to be played at the 3k points or higher area now. So worrying about your lord and hero selections isn't so much trouble because at the 3k point lvl its 750 points for lords, and 750 for heros. You're going to want your heros with ASF though because unlike your unit, they won't get a chance to strike back if they're dead.
Last edited by Painson; July 2nd, 2010 at 02:55.
I think you make many good points. I agree with the changes made in the game soo far, but I am talking about actual units when I speak of being gimped. We still pay too many points for skeletons with spears. The models have crappy WS and still won't make up anywhere near their losses in CR especially now with everyone attacking in 2 ranks. The comment about the corpse cart was that Miasma's ability is part of the point cost of a cart, as was the autobreak that accompanied fear for skeletons. Skeletons are rediculous crap for their point cost and a Corpse Cart is not worth it's cost either now that ASF has such limited benefit. Our core units are absolute trash when compared with almost every other army (especially when comparring point costs - a Skaven Clanrat is half the points and considerably more potent) and we are required to take 25% of our points with them. We can't IoN willy-nilly like we used to for fear of miscasts or failures. And if people tell me the solution to this is only to take ghouls then I am even more upset because that means we really only have 1 core troop choice.