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I played a game last night against vampire counts, and he had 30 grave guard with a vampire with the banner of striking, and the grave guard had drakenhof banner. His lord had helm of commandment, so he was hitting my guys on 2's and wounding on 2's. he also had horde formation. Against my temple guard, he literally killed 11 in the first turn. I wasn't able to get some of my lore of light spells off.. I got greedy and tried to cast the 24+ to give my guys asf and stuff. Getting flanked didnt help either.
Question is.. how do I deal with them with lizards? My salamanders as good as they are.. killed maybe 2 or 3 a turn, and he had 30.. and my army is very cc oriented. You guys don't flee because you're undead... I killed everything in his army barring 1 varghulf, and the grave guard bunker, 1 thrall, and the 1 thrall in his grave guard unit. He had almost half his points in that unit.. so how do I deal with it without making it seem like I'm tailoring my list?
I could sit and flame him to death, but the terrain setup I could only get 1 unit into his grave guard unit.. and well, great weapons hitting on 2's.. hurts.. I eventually flanked him with a saurus unit after dealing with his ghouls, and I did kill his vampire lord with my chameleon skinks.. Poison for the win.. even with the -2 to hit...
Just tips and tricks appreciated.
Also, are varghulfs lvl 1 wizards? Thank you guys for your help.
Kill his Wight King BSB then he does not have regen anymore
Any flaming attack negates regen for the entire turn so for lizardmen use:
The entire fire lore especially the flaming sword of rhuin
Banner of Eternal Flame for a unit.
Killing his lord must have helped out, the helm only has 12" range and can't be used if the vampire is in cc.
Varghulfs are not characters and thus not wizards
He didn't have his bsb in the front row either. Otherwise i would have challeneged him with my temple guard champion. He had a vampire as a bsb with nothing other than the banner. Yea, his Lord hung in the back lines behind his graveguard bunker. Also, aren't you suppose to place all characters in the front rank? Same as 7th? This is my 4th game of 8th edition, and I haven't played 7th for 3 years. He is fairly new.
All characters have to be in the front rank, and don't challenge him just designate as many attacks as you can on him.
Flaming attacks dont negate regen for the turn. They only negate it for that phase.
There are many ways to kill a deathstar unit. Many involve flanking it, especially with ones like that. I mean if half his points are in it you have to assume that you need half your points to deal with it. As previously said kill his Characters in the unit right away. This severely hinders his plans. Also flank charges are great as negating his ranks will make it easier to crumble him faster. Other then that your salamanders should do alot more damage then that. With flaming attacks and no partials they should be hitting tons a turn, and allowing no regen.
Other things that help alot are aoe spells. Things like dwellers from below, purple sun, pit of shades and fulminating flame cage can tear HUGE chunks out of this unit.
Last edited by baynexilos; July 29th, 2010 at 17:20.
I had used lore of light, and I think that using lore of life would be better, especially with shield of thorns and resurrecting temple guard. My salamanders just rolled for crap to wound is all.
Challenges really don't work agains VC.
If they are afraid of losing a challenge they will simply accept it with the unit champion, and even if you kill the champion he will just get reraised next magic phase...
VC has the best character protection hands down...maybe Skaven with second best.
That being said, if you want to kill a character you will need to target them with hits.
there's many, many ways to deal with a grave guard deathstar;
- take lore of fire w/slaan mage priest... everything from a powered-up fireball, to casting flaming swords on a giant block of spear saurus/cold one cav to hitting them with fulminating flame cage.
- give a unit of saurus or temple guard the uber cheap banner of eternal flame!
- a nice killy scar vet/old blood with the burning blade of chotec
- lore of metal spells - they still wound the grave guard on 4's, but also allow no armour saves either! (hope the unit has a ward!!!)
- as also suggested, spells that target the undead's craptastic initiative like pit of shades work wonders...
- a likely unthought of, yet highly amusing combo of a BSB w/banner of eternal flame inside a massive skink phalanx w/krokigors! poisoned flaming attacks from the skinks and then S6 burnyness from the large angry lizzards! plus, it's easy to build lots of ranks with such a unit too since the krokigors take up alot of space!
hope this helps,
Varghulfs are not Lv 1 sorcerers. They are vampires for the purpose of the special rule, not in addition to the actually character "vampire". They are seperate entities.
You can negate the Helm of command by engaging his lord with an expendable unit. It cannot be used as long as he is in combat.
Well, he didn't know how to play 100% so it was a test for him. Thanks for the help all, much appreciated. I run my temple guard with the banner of eternal flame already. I'll just have to wittle it down a bit more with salamanders then I think.