Welcome to Librarium Online!
hey guys ive been thinking of starting vampire counts i have up to now been doing 40k orks and faantasy wood elves however...
the skeleton zombie and crypt goul aspect of the army seems ovrpriced in points for pretty bad warriors, how do they preform?
how good are varghulfs, i love the model but i want it to preform well on the battle field?
is the battalion any good?
Ghouls acually make good fighter. Think of them as plauge monks but with the perk that they can be raised back! It really is nice to have I3 on them aswell.
Skeletons are poor fighters yes but why skeletons always form the core of VC armies if mostly that they can take FC. They arn't good, but their not the ones who will win you the game. Trap an opponent on you skeletons and flank them with something else. Skeletons can be raised back and thats why we can win through attration.
Zombies are...mje. I raise them for fun but they work best if you get around 50 of em in five abreast and run into something you want to stay stationary for a turn or two. They cant kill anything thats just a fact you have to understand. But its funny to see knights hack away at your zombies and then you raise those who died up again. So essentially zombies are the greatest tar pit you have.
I love my Varghulf <3 Great fighter and with high Movement he can run around on the flank playing havok to alot of your enemies plans. Just need to keep a look out for flaming attacks since he will drop easially if hes hit early with them. Also he gets thunderstomp now wich is always fun i have to say.
Battalion is good in the sense that it would cost you more to buy everything seperately and everything in the box is something you most probably will use.
Rambling on forever but i hope you get some inclination on some aspects of the Vampire Counts
I couldn't agree more with BlackDow. I have just played my first battle with my VC army against a Chaos army. 1k points and I really had nothing heavy to fight with but as an experiment I learned a great deal.
Zombies are best played in ranks and the more the better. They are great at slowing things down and the look of surprise when you resurrect them is classic!
Skeletons are poor fighters but with a banner and a full command they can slow down most things to give you a chance to flank with something harder.
Crypt Ghouls are lots of fun but are not that much tougher but do make good low level fighters.
The real problem I had was with flamers. They chewed through my small unit of Dire Wolves and Black Knights in about three turns but my saving throws were like my wolves....dire!
I can't advise you on the Varghulf because I don't have one....yet! They do look pretty awesome though and on a flank they could cause a lot of hassle for your opponent.
Like BlackDow has said, think of your core as the sponge that absorbs your enemies attacks but is only a little better than a sponge at striking back. Build your ranks, take the hit and strike back with you hard hitting units.
Good luck and happy hunting!
Last edited by Nighteyes; January 5th, 2011 at 22:34.
cheers guys you helped alot not quite sure that i like the idea of such a rubish core but the characters are fairly powerful its a big dissision to make so ill take my time on it
You need to look into the Magic Deck too. There are some really good spells that can bolster your core and with the Raise the Dead and Invocation of Nehek to continually grow your units they can be some real fun moments to be had. Remember that any game can be won or lost on the roll of a dice so never give up on your core.
VC core is overpriced because Fear used to be good & now... not so much. At least that's what I've been told, I just started playin when 8th came out. They don't seem like much on paper, but they require a high amount of synergy to play correctly and can be much more deadly when used together.
Zombies: Don't ever EVER pay for these in your army list when they are so easy to raise during the game. Actually I've never needed used them. But once in a blue moon there might really be something that you don't want to fight, and that's where they come into play, as a tar pit. Once you commit them to combat however, that's it. Don't charge anything else into that fight as if your opposition is half-smart he'll direct all his attacks at the Zombies and crumble you through combat res.
Ghouls: I love them! I usually have at least one unit of these guys in combat on turn 1! I take Ghoulkin, so they move 8" before the game just like fast cav. Then they march 8", then I use Vanhel's Danse Macabre to move them another 8" and bam just like that they made it 24" across no man's land. If they get flanked, I just charge one of my Grave Guard units into the flank of whatever just charged the Ghouls and they eat them alive.
Skeletons: Not stellar combat specialists, they would need the Helm or magic help to be effective. Don't bother paying extra for spears either. I usually take one unit of these guys to act as a bunker and to give me an extra banner for Blood & Glory. That's where they shine, in the back holding a flag lol....
Hope this helps!
on the topic of skeletons, i have to say that if you take a unit of 40+ w/spears, they make a solid hoard formation... 40+ attacks can really add up fast, and you'll start dropping stuff simply through sheer volume of dice! (think of it a bit like ork shooting in 40k.)
to make the most of you core, especially those poor skellies, it's worthwhile to invest in the forbidden lore power to gain access to the lore of light... light magic might be designed to kill undead and daemons, but with spells like 'speed of light' & 'birona's timewarp', it's also the biggest boon to the otherwise under-powered undead infantry... who needs a helm of commandment when you can cast a 12" bubble that gives WS10/I10! not to mention the +1A & always strikes first buff from timewarp. now those skellies are something to be truely feared!!!
as for making the most of your now over-costed fear abilities, try giving a vampire the aura of dark majesty power for a -1Ld modifier. coupled with a grave guard unit carrying the scraming banner, your hard-hitting wights just became truely nasty!
VC's in 8th is really all about looking beyond what you have on paper, and being sneaky with your magic and character abilities. point-for-point we have the absolute worst troops in the game - especially our core! but with the right combination of magic & support, our troops can outlast anyone.
A failed fear test causes the enemy unit that failed it to be reduced to something like WS1 or something like that for however long it lasts, right? That would mean that, once an enemy unit is reduced to that, even low WS undead infantry such as Skeletons (or Zombies in rare cases) can cause some degree of harm so they're not entirely worthless. That is IF your opponent fails a fear test.
Of course Zombies, despite being 1-2 points overpriced, aren't entirely useless. They have that rule that lets them deal a D6 of attacks per rank of 5+ to whatever is fleeing them. That, combined with the helm that confers it's wearer's WS to the zombies if he's nearby and NOT in combat, makes this a tactic that sounds rather amusing.
Aren't you glad Ghouls don't have this kind of rule?
Some additional advantages that I've found whilst looking over the VC army book.
Zombies are very usefull but its beter to use points on otehr stuff
While zombies do Cuase D6 S2 hits Per Rank (5+ models) to an enemy that flees from them in combat you first have to get them to flee for this to work.
Even with the helm granting zombies WS 7/10 (if you have fencers blades) you still have to ask ok so now i can hit you but can i hurt you enough to make you flee answer probably not on their own. have a proper unit (by this i mean something you payed points for) charge in front Raise zombies to the side or rear use van's danse to get tthem to charge i have pulled this off twice in 4 games the other 2 where Vs dwarf Magic sucktion gunline (RS's and runes that eat magic)
i had a unit of 20 skeletons Inc vamp count charge a unit of black orcs think they had 15 i used raise dead with necro (RD + Scepre De Noirot) and got 7 zombies i ahd 10 power dice total cast RD on2 with the 6 remaining PD i cast 6 IoNs 1 failed with a roll of 2 and 1 was dispelled giveing me 4 spell to bolster my zombies which at D6+4 is 5+ per spell i got a total of 26 zombies ranked 5x5+1 into the black orc flank necro wasnt in range for rear as i 2 diced vans and he failed to Dis it by 2. the orcs passed their fear test my vamp stuck 1st killed 3 orcs they sturck back all at skeles he didnt feel scared of the zombies 7 attacks 4 directed at the vamp vamp took 1 wound and i lost 3 skeles,
this brought CR so far to banner each 3 wounds on him 4 on me no rank bonus for him and +4 for me (counted form zombies as they are bigger), now my zombies attack with 10 attacks and Fail to evebn land one hit. CR for this round Vamps 1(banner)+3 (wounds)+1 (charge) +4 (ranks) total 9, Orcs 1(banner) +4 (wounds) total 5 General in range ( a black orc also but not in that unit) so LD of 6 orcs run away zombies strike out 5d6 getting 15 S2 hits which actually Killed 2 more orcs the skeles held chased and failed to over run them by 2".
as you can see from that one round of combat while the zombies didnt do anything but provide a +4 rank bonus that was enough to win me the combat had the orcs atatcked the zombuies as well as my skeles it might of been differant however. over all i lost that game by 60 Vp's lucky shot from a doomdiver to my generals face
Anyone thought of using a Wight King as an army general? It doesn't say anywhere in the book (except for being implied in the title) that you absolutely must have a vampire as a general (I'd still admit that they're still worthwhile for their Vampire rule, regardless).
Besides, they have higher leadership than any hero choice (Ld9), have higher Toughness, 3 wounds, and are cheaper than Vampires. I'd say that's a good deal when you need decent leadership for your army without getting a Vampire Lord, but that doesn't mean you can't grab a vampire for enabling key parts of your army to get into position and/or raise more undead units.
Or it could be that I'm one of those who are more/equally fond of the more mainstream concept of the armies of the undead. Oh well, to each his/her own.