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okay so I don't know if this post is in the right place or if it should be in the Army list section. Anyway I need help tailoring a 3000 point Armey list against high else.because the guy I'm playing a game against is tailoring his high elf against my vampires. he is brutal he's one of those guys if you know what I mean. So I need help making a highly competitive 3000 point vampire list against high elves. So any unit suggestions and/or tactics would help greatly. Thank you
More info would be helpful like do you play with special characters, I.E is he bringing Telcis?
What do you expect him to bring?
What do you normally bring? What units are available to you?
To start with ensure you are using the following unit:
29-39 Grave Guard w Great weapons, Banner of Barrows and Wight King with Drakenhoff Banner in horde formation should be a staple.
Last edited by apbevan; April 20th, 2011 at 23:04.
right I have no idea what he's bringing. however I have most of the vampire counts army available. i have 30 goals 90 skeletons 20 Black Knights 30 grave guard six vampires two on horse a white king mounted and one on foot six carn rathes with tomb banshee six spirit hosts corpse cart bat swarms a black coach blood nights (5) necromancer's 1 varghulf and of course about 50 zombies and a abyssal tearor
I'm probably going to be bringing 60 skeletons and 30 goals full command 29 grave guard like you mentioned above with the white king BSb one corpse cart some bats swarms forced their hosts a black coach I really don't know what to do with my lords or heroes besides the BSb I don't know should bring the Black Knights or blood knights and that's all i can think of at the moment
Last edited by frojoe; April 20th, 2011 at 23:48.
Right, so it sounds like you've got a 'TFG' on your hands... Expect something like;
- Teclis + Word Dragon BSB + Caradryan + 20-40 phienox guard. this will be his ultiment anvil that magical cannot effect in any way!!! (only your own buff spells work - anything targeting the unit won't take effect)
If he runs Teclis in this unit, expect him to spam Purple Sun every turn as it utterly rapes every single one of our units hard-core! Now if the world dragon banner isn't present, then there's abotu a 99.9% chance teclis will run life magic and you'll be facing down T7 elves... (and teclis will ignore additional miscasts on a 2+)
- Spearmen or Sea Guard. Expect to see the minimum core similar to how we run.
- White Lions and/or Swordmasters. These will likely be buffed by a secondary wizard and/or teclis himself... One of these elite units, more likely the PG, will have the banner of sorcery for +D3 additional power dice per phase.
- at least 1 more wizard, like 2 at this pts level. The basic HE loadout so look for the support caster to have the seerstaff which allows him to pick his spells, and the other to take the annulian crystal to fuddle with your power pool.
So that's the bad news... Good news, well there's not much but here goes!
a) High Elives can pretty much erase your casting phase, so don't even attempt a magic heavy army! (let him waste those additional pts.) A pair of necromancers w/invocation + vanhel's danse can turn into very annoying models as their cheap cost means you can use the absolute minimun dice to spam their spells (1 dice per invo, 2 dice per vanhels - when the first breaks his concentration, you've got his back-up buddy to continue the festivities!)
b) 2x Black Coaches will ruin magic-heavy armies as that's twice the chance to suck-up power dice! Only pit of shades & purple sun are truely nasty to the coach - once it has it's MR3 it's got a 2+ ward vs any other magic. Once it's flying & ethereal, the elves are in trouble! (just beware of a unit champ toting the amulet of light which bestows magical attacks onto his unit - target him with every attack you've got to remove him!)
c) Run a combat-vamp. A lord w/red fury, hatred, blood drinker, cadaverous cuirass, dragonbane gem in a unit with the drakenhof banner will utterly butcher any elf he can throw at you! Even caradryan is no match - though his auto-damage upon dying is nasty, so just be aware of that...
d) For your general, I'd run a cheaper caster lord; Forbidden Lore, Acolyte, WS hat, 4+ ward. (if you can squeek it in, the fencer's blades are ace and will turn your unit into WS10 monsters!)
Hide him behind your front line, and pass out his WS where needed. choice of lore is upto you, though I find light magic is epic for ruining the elves party as you can take WS10/I10 & ASF spells to turn the tables on them! (or the very least, negate his re-rolls with higher initiative...)
e) to counter a possible 1st turn 'uber-spell = win' tactic, try the following;
vampire w/forbidden lore (death), power scroll, talisman of the lycni.
Aim him at teclis, get him within the 12" range and throw 6 dice into fate of bunja using your scroll. Teclis is no more! Your thrall will die for sure, but it's a fair trade for killing teclis...
*If* the world dragon banner is protecting teclis. make sure a vampire in your army has the ghoulkin power. use the free move to get the jump on chasing down teclis' unit!
f) run ghouls!!! Ghouls are the only choice we have. 25-30 Skellies w/command as a bunker for your caster general.
g) vargulfs are fun. They're our cheapest effective rare choice, and can cause some headachs for T3 elves... Good for going after his bolt throwers & missile troops. (and keeping the attention off your gravestar!)
Basically, he's going to likely throw some of the worst cheese in the game at you by the sounds of it. You're going to be very restricted as to what you could effectively use, and even then he could 1st turn win w/Teclis IF'ing a purple sun or dwellers below into your midst...
But look at it this way;
- He's epected to win since he's playing very WAAC's with (likely) the game's most broken character
- We're a bottom teir army. High Elves are fantastic in 8th! We just got shafted at every single turn, so you're the underdog for sure!
- If you can win, you'll humiliate him since on paper he should win as his army book is much better in 8th's enviroment than ours!
Hope this helps, and good luck kicking his gittish @$$!
Lore of light can be nice (if you manage to get the spells through....) WS10, I10, ASF, +1 A grave guards is always nice
Wight king - sword of kings, the nightshroud armour and dragonbane gem. Put him in a unit of grave guard with the banner of the barrows. A 125 point annoyance beyond believe.
Sword masters and Teclis are his best units, followed by Caradryan and Pheonix Guard. If he doesn't use a fire banner on his sword masters, your grave guard will laugh at them.
Lore of vampires, light and beasts are the best ones for vampires I find in that order. At 3k you can fit in a caster and combat lord quite nicely as well.
Teclis has no ward, so if he isn't in a unit with magic resistances, curse of years or anything death will be able to hit him very nicely! Or take the black coach and throw it at Teclis in combat.
thank you for all your help i did win actually because we were playing tower and i put my gg unit with banner of barrows unit in the tower and held on for the rest of the game only had 2 wounds left at the end 1 on my vp lord other my bsb because he hit me with 8 boltthrowers and like 3 units of archers + pheonix guard but they didn't do any thing.he used teclis that guy is so cheese he belongs on nachoes instead of warhammer and some other mages with light lore! any way thanks 4 your help go vampires !!!
glad to hear you did well. But as I play both VC and HE, I feel that i must correct a few of the things mentioned above:
Yes, the High Elves are amazing in 8th edition. the re-roll due to ASF has made them very deadly, especially against an army with a average initiative of 2. But some of the stuff said just doesn't make sense. Like the world dragon banner for instance. No magic can touch that unit. Friendly or not. the unit is completely immune to all spell effects, whatever their sources. this includes friendly spells, bound items, and spells with area effects that were cast on nearby units, etc. That being said, you'll never have to worry about T7 elves with a world dragon banner. They can't beef themselves under that banner, so you'll never have to worry about it (hence why i never bring it).
2) since when does a second black coach give you a second attempt to suck up power dice? you get one chance, and all dice are distributed to friendly black coaches at random. having a second is a complete waste of points. I would definitly have taken one, because any dice you can steal from teclis is a great advantage. but with a second, you stand the chance of never being able to fully upgrade a single coach, or (more likely) over upgrading one.
3) While charging a scrolled thrall forward to cast a fate of bunja spell at teclis probably work in most circumstances, its still going to be hit or miss, especially with the setup given. If caradryan is present, and telics is present, I'll almost garentee you they'll be in the same unit. Caradryan gives the entire unit, and thus teclis himself, MR3. Teclis would have a 4++ against fate of bunja. Now, average roll of 7, leads to 5 hits. wounding on 2+, we're looking at 4-5 wounds. After the ward save, you'll get 2-3 wounds. Again, should be pretty easy, but much less than a sure thing. especially if teclis throws a toughness boost onto that unit (I know i would). Then you'd be looking at 1-2 wounds on average. that will leave your opponent sweating bullets, but it will also leave teclis alive. If he's running life (and there's no reason teclis shouldn't) then he'll simply heal himself up next magic phase. Even against vampires, I would take life with teclis. Purple sun would be amazing, but i'd rather have T7 elves with 4+ regen, that always hit on 3's, with "infinite hatred", and will always wound on at least 4+ (excluding agaisnt vampires, but then again a tooled noble could put up a decent fight against a vampire lord), usually 2+.
Oh, and always run light against elves. The way high elves used to survive in 7th was by killing you before you got to attack back. Now that you get to attack back, they kill you by hardly ever missing (i do love that reroll). Take that away from them, and they'll go down really fast. Your raising powers might be a bit hampered by an amazing dispell ability, but if you have to lose a few 8 point models to take out a few 15 point models, I'd call it a win.