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I'm new to WHFB, and after some digging decided to go with VC as my army [Go underdogs!]
one of the reasons are the zombies, from what I've read they are useless and overpriced and I shouldn't take them at all, BUT:
-I really like them.
-I wont be playing tournaments, only for fun.
-I don't want/need to table my friends, just a fun exciting game.
I'm not planning on creating 1 giant zombie horde, but am thinking of adding 1/2 blobs to tarpit and just look awesome on the field.
But is there a way to make they more usable without ruining the rest of my army?
other units I really like:
-Necromancer on Nightmare
-Blood Dragon on Winged Nightmare
How to use them? are they usable together or would that make for an un-playable army?
I hope I don't look lazy for asking this outright, I have and am looking at older threads, but most just tell how bad zombies are and only show tourny lists.
thank you for your time.
Zombies are really darn weak, but make a block big enough and it won't get wiped in one turn, which will fill the "tarpit" function decently, at least.
From what I can tell, Ghouls are the Core unit of choice right now, so no worries on that. Varghulfs also strike me as quite useful, having Regeneration and Flight (and a low cost as far as monsters go). D. Wolves... depends on opinion, but they're basically faster Chaos Warhounds, and some people swear by those guys for re-direction/baiting purposes (I'm not a fan, personally). I don't have any experience with the rest of what you mentioned, though, so I can't give you much.
I think you need some Grave Guard in there, though - every army needs punch, and Grave Guard is what provides it for VC.
thanks for the reply
well will go with zombies and ghouls then.
glad to hear at least some of my wish-list units are useful I chose those units on their looks, not their stats.
I forgot to add the Guard, my bad. I was indeed planning to use them for my knock out punch . ( I'll edit the guard in @ my first post.)
also: what about the BLood Dragon on WInged Nightmare? and Blood Knight? adding some mobile punch or am I wrong with this?
have some rep for the help
The Winged Nightmare is actually a good choice if you want to keep a casting-heavy Vampire the heck away from close combat. Usually, if you want a fighty Vampire, you're sticking him in your Grave Guard where he can duke it out with the enemy, or you'll give him something nastier to ride on (like an Abyssal Terror). Since you take Wounds for losing combats, it's just too risky to throw him out there alone into a fight he doesn't have a very good chance to win.
Blood Knights are awesome, for sure, but they're pretty up there on the points (and on the monetary cost). I've heard good things about them at higher points values, but I wouldn't worry about them for a while, myself.
If you give a vampire the Crown of commandment you can pass it's WS on to the zombies if they are close enough and if the Vamp is not in combat. Therefore the Zombies will be at Ws 6 or 7. Also the Vargulf can't fly,but it's still awesome!
Some helpful ideas to make zombies more 'fun';
a) Make use of the 'Forbidden Lore' vampire power. With it, you can gain access to the Lore of Light for turning your deadheads into WS10/I10 ninja zombies!!! They still won't kill much because of their pitifull strength of 2, but they'll hit pretty much everything short of a bloodthirster on 3's, while WS4 and under troops will need 5's to-hit!
Take the Lore of Beasts as the signature spell will give your awfull & near-useless deadheads the basic S3/T3, thus letting them take some hits! (and even dish out some back too!)
b) WS Hat, aka the Helm of Commandment. Sure there's much better units to use it on, but giving your vampire's above average, elf-like WS to those zombies will really help cut down on the number of hits the enemy can get. It's also a safer bet than relying on magical buffs too...
c) Build bigger units. Zombies die in droves, even to other really crappy troops like skinks, skaven slaves, gobbos & gnoblars simply because of their WS1/S2/T2 stats. (honestly, it's the super low WS & toughness that does them in because everything the game pretty much hits you on 3's & kills on 3's almost all of the time)
Now, if you're playing just for fun, don't worry about how bad our book is, because it's just for fun, right?!! Sure we're at a bigger disadvantage than most right now because of a number of the game's fundamental changes, but eventually we'll get our 8th ed book and have more varied options & better costs!
So try out some wacky combos, build those units you really like and just have a blast! And hey, we're getting a shiny new monster in a couple of weeks, so it's not all doom and gloom is it?!
I myself refuse to use the ghoul-spam net list because it simply doesn't fit in with my Lahmian theme, and skeletons look way better anyways! Sure if I run into anyone running an even semi-optimised list I almost always lose horribly, but it's really great when those augment spells get through and 40 skeletons beat the shit out of a far more elite unit!
As for blood knights... Their cost is ungodly for sure, but there's plenty of optios for converting some plastic ones, namely using kits like;
- Cold One Knights for that 'Underworld' style armoured look
- Chaos Knights for the beefy guys, though you'll have to file off a good deal of the overtly chaotic iconography.
- Dragon Princes are epic and require almost no conversion work for that real Blood Dragon look! (just add some spiky goodness)
- Bretonnian Knights are good and beefy, and you can make for a great 'fallen heroes' looking unit.
- Combine one or two of the above for a really unique look!
Thanks for the blood knight ideas, my wallet is happy ;-).
As for lore of light, I'll be defenitely using it: can't kill what you can't hit!
And the thought of my friends' arrogant DE slashing thin air in futile attenpts to hit my zombies makes me grin eveytime.
If I take the lore of light, the crown would be quite useless right? Or am I missing something?
To bad the Varghulf (spelling?) Doesn't have the "Fly"special rule, though that doesn't make it less awesome.
Now I need help with something: I have the VC army book, but I can't find the rules for the Blood Dragon on the Winged Nightmare anywhere! :-s *panick*
I am not planning on using a win-list, but don't want to get tabled, time and time again. That would ruin the fun for both of us ;-).
Last edited by Leafblower; July 15th, 2011 at 19:12.
Winged Nightmares are now called Hellsteeds - overall better because beforehand, the hellsteed (aka 'winged nightmare) was considered a monstrous mount, so there was the real chance of your poney getting shot out from under you!
Now with a combined profile, things like the vampire's ward save protect the entire model - not just the blood maddened maniac!
The actual 'blood dragon on winged nightmare' model would likely be a suitable candidate for the Abyssal Terror - the newer, beefier low-end monstrous mount.
You honestly won't lose every single game as long as your friend doesn't insist on pulling out the more obnoxious elements of the dark elf book... As long he's willing to leave stuff like the sacrifical dagger, pendant 'o win + crown of command lord, multiple minimum sized harpy screens and such at home most of the time, you guys should have some good fun & be able to play closer games. (by that same token, when playing for fun, we don't always need our dickenhofguard horde 'o doom!)
8th ed is more about moderation - if one or both of you exploit certain aspects of the game, then the fun factor will suffer big time.
Ahhh alright makes sense now thanks. :-)
The blood knights can certainly deal out damage however they will not break the majority of units in a turn, and that way they will get hit back. This is not a good thing to happen. Also they are I4, which means elves will hit them first, again not what you want! (on a modelling note I made some out of empire knights and other bits which is good and cheap.)
The key to winning, or at least staying competitive is to not to loose your lord.
If fielding zombie then at least 40-50. They are so incredibly weak you need lots and lots of numbers.
Hope this helps a bit
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