Skellies with spears or gouls? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member aarant's Avatar
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    Skellies with spears or gouls?

    I can't make up my mind, on how I want to further expand my army as far as core go. Thus far I have been running my skeletons with spears and in units of 25 and they have been great for grinding out the game against woc. However I see and hear a lot of people saying gouls are the way to go. I understand there are rummors about a new book for us in january, though I don't want to go off that, I like versatility in what I can choose from anyways.

    So whats better?

    spears, 16 attacks, banner, 5+ save

    16 attacks, poison, no armour

    I find it hard to choose, both have huge benifits in my opinion, and whats always weighed my choice to spears is having a magical banner and survivability with armour. The less I have to spend in magic to resurect the more I can use in dealing damage, or buffing.

    Any feed back would be great.


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  3. #2
    Rules Attorney BrockSamson's Avatar
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    ghouls. ghouls. ghouls.

    A goblin with light armor spear shield is 4 points. He also has WS2, Str3 T3. A skelly with the same gear is 9 points. NINE. You are paying more than double for the fact that the skeleton is unbreakable and causes (nerfed) fear. A skavenslave has the same statline with no armor or spear... he is 2 points. 2.

    Meanwhile, ghouls have no armor, but are T4, which is pretty much just as good as T3 with a 5+ armor, if not better. Also, they have WS3 (this means a few things... a) other WS3, which EVERYONE is, hits them on 4s instead of 3s, which makes up some more defensive difference between them and skellies. b) they hit those WoC WS5 warriors on 4s, not 5s like the skellies.).

    Finally, they have two poisoned attacks. First, with supporting attacks, they have as many attacks as skellies with spears in the front... and they have them at WS3... and they have them with poison.

    Literally the ONLY things skellies have better is armor (which higher WS and T more than makes up for), and the ability to take a banner (and why waste a magic banner on what are essentially glorified goblins/skavenslaves).

    Most people will take a small unit of skellies as a Necro bunker just to have another banner in the army for the purposes of the Blood and Glory scenario, but otherwise they are worthless.
    Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times

  4. #3
    Rules Attorney BrockSamson's Avatar
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    Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times

  5. #4
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    If your skeletons are surviving & actually grinding it out with chaos warriors, then either;
    a) you're magically buffing them to no end. In which case, your opponent isn't that great because they should be dispeling those buffs.
    b) your opponent is taking a pretty weak army.

    We honestly shouldn't be standing upto WoC with our units outside of the Rares, ghouls and/or grave guard. Hit on 5's, wound on 5's = almost no kills. Considering the combat res the warriors should be racking up on average, even the 5-wide sword/board skellies don't last more than a turn or so unless there's 40+ of 'em!
    Even marauders rack up the kills pretty efficiently, unless they've stuck to the sword/board... (and if they're not marked tzeentch, then that's a sure sign of a weaker player because for their cost, marauders should really be rocking flails, or better yet gw's!)



    Considering we have a new book on the horrizen, I'd say build more skeletons. GW has a habbit of nerfing the unit/s that are seen to be heavily spamed in every list, so I'm honestly expecting ghouls and grave guard to get a bit worse. (ie: I can see GG staying at current cost, and the gw's now costing +3pts/model, meanwhile something's going to happen with ghouls - skirmisher again maybe!?!)
    Conversely, the stuff that's never scene in games will get buffed so GW can sell those models! (Hence why you should go for skellies as their pts will likely be cut in half)

    Sadly, I don't think GW themselves actually understand just how bad being undead is in 8th... Unstable is borderline broken for our core since they hardly kill anything to generate combat res... Thus, we can't support like everyone else because of how the combat res bled by skeletons will outright kill our expensive rares & (ironically) our most important characters too!
    Just dropping the pts won't fix our situation - look at Tomb Kings, even with half-price skeletons, you still don't see the iconic phalanxes of spears. Why? Because skeletons can't compete in 8th ed combat without a disgusting number of buffs being placed on them!

    So while I have a feeling our skeletons are going to be in the same boat, I'm still hopeful that our new magic will synergise well with them, and they'll stay far cheaper than the potentially (and likely) nerfed ghouls...

  6. #5
    Rules Attorney BrockSamson's Avatar
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    Nah, the Vamp book shouldn't take too much of a hit, they will try to balance it out. The Grave Guard are actually overpriced for what they do... compare them to Black Orcs at cost, taking into consideration BOs are now ITP and are the only unit that can choose weaponry in 8th. Ghouls aren't really overpowered... I'd say they're about right at 8 points, maybe they need another point or two tacked on. But skellies have to get cheaper, they have to get spears for free, and they have to get WS3 (or they have to get MUCH cheaper).

    But yeah, CR generated against cheap undead units causing expensive flankers to crumble is a problem, no doubt.
    Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times

  7. #6
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    Our skeleton will get the TK treatment; pts cost cut in half and an extra point for spears...

    Our skeletons getting a stat buff (or any other buff) that TK's miss out on? Not going to happen since the TK players will quite rightly whine and moan why their skellies are still crap! At best we'll get the same Ld5 that our dusty cousins got.
    Hopefully we keep our ability to raises masses of undead...

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