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I've just returned to FB and have two options: either I stick to my Warriors or try something new. Chaos will always be my favourite, but rumours of them being redone in about a year has made me thinking. There are a few armies out there which seem really fun, VC's one of them, and I don't want to do all sort of crazy stuff with my Warriors army in case of it being unusable witht the new book, so I might pick one up and run with it until the update
The reason I like VC is because of the whole undead theme, and the new models look awsome. One important point for me is fluff, where Chaos really excels in my view, and VC's doesn't seem all that interesting tbh. That might be because I don't know much about it, but they seem very focused in Sylvania, while my beloved Chaos are at large all over the world. If I were to start a VC army it would be with very focused on necromancy and would probably not include Vampires, but would focus on a necormancer's quest for power. Would it be possible to build an army with these restrictions and how would it look, ie. what kind of models would be included?
It's also worth mentioning that I want to keep things small and focused. Partly because it's a side project, but mostly because I have difficulties seeing all-conquering hordes of undead warriors. To me, necromancy is a strive towards eternal life and not about world domination, wheras Chaos champions strive for the attention of their Gods.
The Von Carsteins are focused in Sylvania, but Vampires in general are all over the place. It's outright stated that they lurk among the nobility in the Empire, Mousillon in Bretonnia is crawling with Vamps and Necromancers, and the area near the Badlands is in a power struggle between the Strigoi Ghoul Kings and the Orcs. And then there's the Lahmians, who still have some Khemri in them. There's plenty of regional flavor to be found.
And yeah, thanks to the new book, you can totally do a Necromancer-focused army. You have access to most of the book, and you have the advantage that (unlike a Vampire Lord) you won't have to commit 400+ points to one guy. I really like swarms of Dire Wolves, Skeletons, and Zombies for the basis of the army, along with some Grave Guard, Wight Kings, and Vargheists to provide the punch.
As far as small and focused... do you mean points total, or model count? The points total is up to you, but model count for a VC army will always be high. This is a Horde army, bro.
Last edited by rothgar13; January 29th, 2012 at 21:18.
Don't forget Luthor Harkon and his Zombie Pirates on the Lustrian Coast!
But yeah, essentially Necromancers can pop up anywhere, or at least anywhere where mankind inhabits as they're more prone to turning to Necromancy to extend their lives.
I'm still working my way through the new book so I'm not certain if having a Necromancer-led army restricts you in any way. As far as I can tell as long as you have at least one wizard with the Lore of Vampires you're good to go!
rothgar13 has covered the fluff side of things pretty well - yes Sylvania is the home of the Von Carsteins but there are plenty of other vampires and necromancers around the Old World. Necromancers particularly are closely tied with Dark Magic, so anywhere where such magic might accumulate (graveyards, battlefields, old mansions or watchtowers, etc...) you're likely to find them skulking about.
Also, I feel that there's a lot of potential to tell your own story with Vampire Counts. The motivations of your general, be they vampire or necromancer, can vary a great deal and give you quite a lot of scope to work with.
If you've got any other questions before you dive in to your new project feel free to ask!
The only thing you don't have access to as a Necromancer general are the big mount options, such as the Coven Throne, the Zombie Dragon, or the Terrorgheist. To be honest with you, that's not a big deal - you don't want a Necromancer anywhere near combat anyway.
Thanks guys, seems like I have some reading to do.
When I say small I mean in terms of points, I know VC's a horde army. Some armies dosn't work very well at lower point limits, how's VC in this regard? Small is about 500-1000 pts, maybe a bit more but not much. And as I said: with a heavy focus on necromancy, and stuff that enhances resurrection spells and stuff (don't know what they're called, never played against VC). Maybe with one Vampire, if I need him and if I can make it work in terms of lore. It'd feel strange having a necromancer as a general if I have a Vampire in the army though.
There are a couple of armies I'm looking at, currently reading up on VC, hence this post. It will probably take a while before I decide though as I haven't bought the new rulebook yet, and I'm gonna read that before I make my decision. As this is a side project from my Chaos army, it's more for fun than anything else, which is why I want a clear focus on the army and to make it fit with the lore.
Given that you want a Necromancer as your General, VC will be just fine at low points. It's the lists that like using Vampires that struggle at those totals, because Vampires gobble up points like candy.
The only thing you may struggle with it combat ability - usually the large units of skeletons and zombies are only there to hold a unit in place, and a vampire attached to the unit does the actual killing. Or a flank charge from another unit.
You could always use a Wight King though if you felt you needed a tougher, more capable combat character. Still fits in fine with the Necromancer theme.
Other units that can work in terms of lore are Cairn Wraiths and Banshees, what are they used for? Ghouls and Dire Wolfs are also an option, even though Ghouls are not dead they seem common enough to be drawn to a necromancer, but I'm trying to stay away from more exotic creatures. Of course, if it's impossible to build an army with my restrictions I'll loosen them a bit. This is mostly for fun, but I still don't want to lose every game.
I'm not sure about Cairn Wraiths and Banshees - I mean, fluffwise, they seem viable for a Necromancer army, but I'm not sure how they're best used. Whether you'd be able to throw them into a flank like you would Grave Guard or Black Knights and come out with similar results or if it would all end horribly...
I think you could justify using a Black Coach, should you wish; a coven of Necromancers trying to revive the ancient Vampire held within it, or something?
Dire Wolves and Hexwraiths may be handy for a flank charge in a pinch, although probably not ideal. I dunno, I think I'd best defer to others on this!
A necromancer themed army is a definite option and one that I've been looking at myself. Prior to the new book I was using a great deal of Strigoi themed units in my army, mostly because of the ungodly price for skeletons. Now that they've managed to come down in price as well as the addition of the Master Necromancer it seems like it would be a lot of fun to build a vampire-less vampire counts army. Skeletons and zombies as your tar pits or anvils and grave guard and black knights as your hammers. This is the generic basis but is immensely capable of being very adaptive.
Skeletons with spears in horde formation having re-rolls to hit and to wound from some magic become quite killy all on their own, and even zombies with similar buffs can overwhelm their opponents with the right shadow or death lore debuffs (withering, soul blight). Grave guard in high enough numbers get raised back just as fast as skeletons do so can provide a mediocre tar pit when necessary just by bringing back all your losses each turn. And Black knights with T4 and a 2+ save can be fairly hard to cut through, especially since they now come back 1+wizard level, means up to 5 black knights can be brought back with a single cast. Just ask a Bret player what he'd do to get his hands on T4 cav that he can restore 5 models to on a 6+ cast.
Fitting into the theme are a ton of other units that have been seriously fixed by the new book. The Black Coach as someone mentioned before is an absolute powerhouse and is much harder to just ignore now. Corpse carts acting like chariots and getting impact hits as well as their 2D6 attacks now at S3 makes it pretty useful in combat instead of just a support unit which it still does very well.
The ethereal units must be used very specifically but when done correctly are extremely powerful. You can't just run them into any unit and definitely not a ranked up unit head on. However they're perfect for powerful units with little static combat res. Cavalry and small elite units make perfect targets especially with the new chill grasp rule. They can work well as flankers provided you have another unit in combat that can equalize the static combat res. Ethereal units hate the unstable rule.
By the way, one more thing, as far as adding combat prowess Wight Kings are amazing in that role.
Hope this helps!