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I need a new build. The old build consists 80 ghouls, 40 grave guard ,2 whight kings; with a lvl 4 vamp and, a level 2 vamp. This is at least the main build I saw winning alot of tournaments and what Games Workshop wanted to shut down. Well they did, they shut it down and my vamps need a re-boot. At WS 2 I cant say I'm all that impressed with the skeletons and ghouls are just way to costly. The dire wolves are not an anvil, unit they are a die as fast as you can unit. It's like a race back to the grave yard. Last one home is a rotten corps! So I figure Grave gaurd is still a viable spear head unit with a whight king BSB and banner of the barrows. LVL 4 Vamp is way to expensive but you need his 100 vamp power points if you want to re roll your winds of magic.I'm thinking a lvl 4 necro with a lvl 2 vamp for casting. The main problem with Games Workshop is they dont play the game so they have no idea how to build a codex, or a company that can thrive and make money i.e. fail cast..... I'm not saying the Vamps are no longer a viable army but I can say no one likes jogging up hill and every since I got this army is been an up hill battle all the way to come up with a list that can compete on an all commers level.
What about hundreds of zombies, seasoned with a combat heavy vampire, a couple of casters, a mortis engine, and whichever of the interesting special and rare choices you most like to use. It seems like there is not much in the army book that is especially 'bad' at the moment so the lists will be nice and varied and vampire players can have some fun picking them for a change instead of what we have been used to (ghoul spam)!
You make a good point with the ghoul spam. I need a good unit to guard my flanks while my spear head moves ahead, and I think I'm going to run with skeletons as my flank guard since I can raise them above thier starting size. At least they can hit back. Crypt ghasts will be the stool softener and Grave guard will be the mop up crew.
That army could be easily undone by a single 10pts magic item, three lores of magic and any other army specific items/abilities that gave flaming attacks.
GW did us all a big favor by bin'ing that worthless pile of shite army book they pooped out in 7th. THAT was the failbook. Our NEW book is what VC's are ment to be!
[QUOTE=Pit viper;1894335]At WS 2 I cant say I'm all that impressed with the skeletons and ghouls are just way to costly. The dire wolves are not an anvil, unit they are a die as fast as you can unit. It's like a race back to the grave yard. Last one home is a rotten corps!
So I figure Grave gaurd is still a viable spear head unit with a whight king BSB and banner of the barrows. LVL 4 Vamp is way to expensive but you need his 100 vamp power points if you want to re roll your winds of magic.
I'm thinking a lvl 4 necro with a lvl 2 vamp for casting.
See, this is just being stubborn and insisting on sticking to the old ways...
- Skeletons are a solid anvil unit. They're dead cheap and come with a 5+/6++ parry save. One unit can take a magic banner - typically the ungodly effective Screaming Banner which can be easily combo'd with a Thrall taking the Aura of Dark Majesty + Fear Incarnate powers. Honestly, if this combo didn't leap off the pages of the new book and slap you upside the head saying, "Fear is what now - pass this you weakling meatsacks, mwahahaha!!!" Then you seriously haven't even tried to give it a read.
The Lichbone Banner for easy magic res is good on a big unit, or else Banner of Eternal Flame makes anyone with regen cry.
Plus, you get FREE! spear upgrades! No one else does, so this is a pretty big deal as it makes an offensive horde approch no more expensive than a ranked unit designed to deny steadfast...
- Dire Wolves now have a vanguard move and got their Slavering Charge rule back. For no pts increase! Oh, and they now count as part of your core allowance too!
A couple units of these to put serious pressure on enemy war machines, missile troops, lone wizards and such can be a huge advantage. Being core units now, they also take the pressure off you ethereal units like spirit hosts who are now free to roam about tarpitting monsters or screening your cavalry.
Finally they're easier to raise now getting 1+wizard Lv worth of models, and if you want, you can still take them above starting unit size with multiple vampires!
Dire Wolves have never been ment to be an anvil - that's the job of skittles and zombies. Dire wolves have always been speedy hitters who take on things like fast cav, re-direct nasty units, hunt war machines or lone wizards.
- You don't need a Lv4 w/full powers + magic items. Master necros are the big casty guys, vamps are genralists. (and if you want to specialise, then you're going to pay for it!)
MotBA's is pants now - way too likely that you'll buff your opponent's dispel pool in the process. The Black Periapt however got better and fits nicely onto a Vampire Lord or a Master Necro who's not going anywhere near a mortis engine.
Our army isn't a dull, stupid 'point-and-click' book anymore, it's just as tactical and full of options as every other book in the game! What more could we want?!!
Bit of overkill in that explination maybe.
Basicaly and book released in 8th eddition fashion is now balanced, and hasn't followed the power creep that was seen in the final years of 7th ed. Everything is costed as you would expect it to be for what it can do. Example being ghouls, with T4, 2A, Poison and can be raised back. Can you think of any other unit that is quite as well off as they are for the points you actualy are now paying for them?
Vampire characters not being combat monsters who can also chuck out extreme magic at the same time has also been adressed, and needed to be with the way you are limited to points spending per slot in 8th ed. In old style armies you could expect to see vampire lvl4 vampire lords who could take out most characters, backed up by 3 more Vampire heroes kitted out to raise your units to a reasonable size before you get to combat, becuase you had spent all your points on characters and that grave guard bunker leaving you just over 200pts to fit your core option in.
It was a bit daft, but becuase 7th ed was unbalanced it worked a treat as that unit of 10 ghouls got raised to a unit of 30 or 40 by turn 3 and got into combat. I never understood raising ghouls above starting size anyway because they arent dead dead, even if they have undead rules, but more just minions summoned to fight. so the idea of raising them to thier starting size (healing rasiing dead ones) makes sense as a pose to ghouls popping out of thin air.
Zombies are now worth taking on the basis that you can raise so many so quick, and although they are still WS1, they have had thier S+T boosted to the average human/elf level of 3, so they are going to stay in fights much longer.
Skeletons are now what they were always meant to be which is the bread and butter of your army. Zombies are the freshly dead, risen from plague epidemics or just off the battlefield and will eventualy rot into unusfulness. Ghouls will eventualy die. But one thing you can rely on is that eventualy you will be left with bones and skeletons and lots of them. Go to graveyards and tombs and what you'l find is skeletons, so making it so you can field alot of these cheaply is another thing which has been thought through.
Grave gaurd are as they always were, a little cheaper now maybe but nothings changed. No need to use them with shields anymore because you have skeletons to act as bunker units, so you can always go with great weapons.
The best part is the change to magic. There wa a concern that you wouldnt be able to raise enough models fast enough, but now invocation works as an area of effect spell, so even though your casting it less times than you did in 7th ed on one dice casting, you are effecting more units in a single raise. To add to that further you add your spell level to the numer of models you raise per unit. So a lvl 4 who raises 6 skeletons, will raise a total of 10 into that unit. thats 2 whole ranks on one unit from one cast, and that before any other nearby units. Zombies raise even more.
Marching is a bit of a pain now that you cant spam vampires to cover your entire army and make it march, but 12" from the general is effectively 24" radius, and that pleanty of room to fit the units you need to march in, and then you have units that are fast enough that it doesnt matter on the flanks anyway.
On the whole this is the best book released in 8th ed. The only problem i have with it is the same as all the other 8th ed army books is the way the army specific magic items have been raped in order to make people use the magic items in the BRB, to ensure that people buy the BRB.
GW arent stupid but they love the moneys.