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Alrighty kids, those of you who were LOers back in 7th may remember that your's truly was a pretty hardcore Vampires player. These days, I've moved on to world domination and eternal damnation with my Warriors, but I think it might be time to come back around to my old haunts.
Talking shop with a pal, I realized that it seems everyone thinks that VC is a slow army, with a "grinder" feel to every unit. But looking at the new book, we probably have more viable fliers, and more units that just ignore terrain, than any other army in the game. Plus you can still march near a Vampire, and plenty of good units have the rule.
So I ask - how viable is a "fast" Vampires army? I'm thinking that my 625pts core is 2 units of 60 Skellies, one with a Vampire, one with a M.Necro and Wraith - or lots of DWolves (90?). Then bulk it with Vargheists and/or Varghast helping to march Hex Wraiths and Black Knights around.
The idea is to be across the field harassing the enemy before they're ready- would it be competitive?
Unfortunately Units with the Vampire rule no longer allow other undead units to march when within 6" of the them or if they join a unit without the vampire special rule they lose the ability to march if more than 12" from the General.
Yes people i know that my spelling and punctuation is awful but I am product of British teaching pollicies so what can I do about it?
Well that's no fun. Hmmm... I still want to make this work and somehow stay competitive. I really like the idea of a fast moving force that crosses the table very quickly and starts messing with my opponent early on. Losing the option to march if I'm away from the general is a bit of a downer though.
I can't remember - does a unit have to be within 12" at the start of the turn to march, or just whenever they declare the march? I have no problem fielding some kind of Flying Vampire to bounce around my units with - keeping them all under his wing to get across, then bouncing around as they spread out. The only thing I'd be worried about then is my 625pts of Core being too slow to get into the fight in a timely manner. VanHels is still around, but I didn't want to have to invest too much into magic.
I was thinking of something fairly similar to this. What I came up with was a DE-style "units of heavy hitters wandering around with tarpits available to help break ranks" sort of list. 2 squads of Vargheists and a Bloodbus are the lynchpin, some Vargheists to keep the fear of the gods in people, the rest you can pretty much flavor to taste. Not a completed concept by any means, but I think it's got potential.
The list can be pretty fast, but clearly the core will slow you down. you could go all wolves for speed, but you're not going to win much with something like that. Just keep you general in a nice bunker of skeletons and have your whole army march up all at once. I haven't found the new march rules to be that bad. units on your flanks wouldn't be able to march, so just put your vampiric units there. 100% "Vampiric" units (vargheists, vargulfs, blood knights) can still march as normal. So your flankers, like say a vargulf or two, are still free to march and keep up with your army. Vargheists can fly and march, so they no trouble keeping up with the rest of your army. And if you take crypt horrors, their extra movment means that they'll be right behind the rest of your army, even if they can't march. Its not as hard to work around as you might think.
As per your core, I highly suggest a block or two of 40+ skeletons and a 40+ unit of zombies. I have seen zombies work to amazing effect now that they're cheap and T3. Saw someone put a unit of 100 on the table with 4 vampires in it. that one unit ate half the enemy army. and unless you kill all 100 zombies (and all that are comming back due to the 2d6 invocations, another great reason to take zombies now) you're opponent isn't getting any points. nobody fears the zombies, but they do fear the 4 vampires that will make way and destroy almost anything.
Honestly, any opponent who can't 'be ready' by the time you reach him (turn two, if you're really lucky) deserves to lose. You should be ready on deployment!
Not to dissuade you or anything! I just think the premise of catching the foe in the midst of his breakfast is a bit unrealistic. You might be fast enough to thwart his maneuver plan and force him to react to you (depending on who goes first), but that's not catching him unprepared to fight!
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010
One of my favourite tricks so far with the new Hexwraiths for example;
a) Place them in front of a unit flanking my general's unit - use their 8" vanguard move to put them into position, lining them up in a 3x2 formation to effectively 'gain' and extra 2" or so with the front rank.
b) First turn, move my infantry line up to bring the general into range of the wraiths.
c) Slingshot those wraiths 16" into my opponent's backfield, while laughing manically!
Works a treat and most things won't be able to scratch those wraiths. Do that a few times, and people will start leaving a cheap wizard in their backfield just to deal with those wraiths. Basiclly forces your opponents to dance to your tune and leave a caster open to attack from fell bats, varghiests, dire wolves and the like who will be hitting a softer overall target to boot! (varghiests really don't like hitting anything with S4 or better in all honesty...)
Right Marnepup, I understand that it's impossible to catch an opponent entirely flat-footed, but there's always a little bit of shuffling going on during early movements, or they plan a set of maneuvers. My idea was to be able to move so fast that if they react to the deployment of my army, I can basically redeploy and be causing damage. That's what I love so much about Fliers and the new Hexwraiths. The opponent thinks he has you pinned? Hardly.
Yep, looks like the plan (so far) is going to be to run a Master Necro, and another Necro or two in with two core regiments of 60 Skellies (and maybe a few zombies) and put a corpse cart between them. If a Ghoul King on the Terrorthing has enough LD, I'd like to make him my general, otherwise I'm going with a Vampire Lord on a different flying mount or just give him Winged Horror. He's going to march-bubble some Hexwraiths, possibly Black Knights, who will be coordinated with Vargheists. It's going to be a small and relatively fragile list, but I have enough core etc to build the typical "shambling horde" if it bombs.
Just bear in mind what points total you're shooting for, Cap'n. You might have to choose between a Master Necro and having all the toys on your Vamp Lord.
Yeah- I'm obviously going to have to sit down with the book again. I got very hung up while looking at certain bits and pieces, and really just gave the rest of it a pretty cursory glance. Leadership permitting, I actually want to use the Ghoul King (a hero yes?) for my General, freeing up most of points for a Lord. I don't see Vampires really needing a BSB like other armies, so my Hero section is practically in the clear. Other thoughts have been to scrap the Master Necro and try for Krell and Manfred, plus someone with a book for the 3-VHD build, and then see where I stand towards getting a general airborne. Points are something I'm aware of, and worried about actually. I'm just between jobs at the moment and can't afford to be buying books or building armies.