Why would anyone take a necromancer over a vampire?

[Korpacz1]

For a measly 40pts, more points you get +3WS, +2S, +1T, +3I, +3A, AND you can wear armor and get vampiric powers and access to lore of shadows. I just don't understand the point of a necromancer unless you need Master of the Dead upgrade.

I just don't get it. Seems stupid to even have necromancers.

[Finchht09]

sometimes 40 points makes a big difference. You never know when you're going to run out of points and wish for just a few more. That being said, here are some of the reasons i take necromancers: 1) They're cheaper than vampires 2) I don't care as much if they die, its not like he's a combat beast or anything. 3) if i'm paying the points for the vampire, i'm probably giving him additional equipment (mundane and/or magical), so its usually more than a 40pt difference. 4) That "measly" 40+ points, is almost a second necromancer. 2 casters for the price of 1. twice as many chances to channel, twice as many characters to hold the army together should the general fall, and twice the number of invocations to cast (Especially useful with mortis engine with tome). 5) same LD as vampires, so if the general dies, that unit will be testing on the same leadership whether it has a vampire or necomancer. without it, most units are destroyed or rendered combat ineffective on their own leadership. 6) people are scared of vampires, they'll throw everything they have at them. People aren't scared of necros. And they shouldn't be. but it means i get to keep my caster, keep my invocation battery, keep my higher LD, and i get to draw them into traps. 7) I'm sure someone out there has done a fluff list with nothing but necromancers. Long story short, there are plenty of reasons to take necromancers, not the least of which is the master of the dead upgrade. Honestly, i have never made good use of it. I've used that upgrade once or twice, but the extra 5-8 skeletons i got from it didn't make enough of a difference to validate it in my mind.

[Korpacz1]

That's a good way of putting it... 40pts is almost another necro 2 for 1. and you're right, you throw more in gear into the vampire.

Another somewhat off-topic question: If your vampire is mounted, riding with hex wraiths, does he still get a 2+ look-out-sir roll? Because the hex wraiths are etheral, so he'd be somewhat immune to non-magic shooting attacks like cannonballs.

[Finchht09]

re-check your rules about ethereals. non-ethereal models can't join ethereal units. Your vampire would never be able to join a unit of hex wraiths. you could, however, stick close by (within 3") and benifit from the 4+ "look out sir" for being the same troop type. but really, why would you do such a thing? just throw him into a unit of knights (black or blood, your choice) so he'll provide a nice combat punch along with his unit and not have to worry about failing a 50/50 look out.

[Korpacz1]

Thanks for the clarification. Just bought the book yesterday and still putting the puzzle together. I've been playing WoC for a little bit now, and this army is way more complicated, so it's taking time to absorb it all.

[saltrock36]

You take necromancers to cast as much as your magic as possible. You take Vampires to cover combat. Yes vampires can be lvl 2 just like necromancers, and unfortunatly necros cant take shadows which anoys me personaly no end, but vampires have enought to worry about without having to also raise and keep your army alive.

You points for magical items, and bloodlines is limited, you could try to get a balanced vamp, good offensive items, lvl 2, magic bloodlines etc, but you end up spending nearly 250pts on a hero level character who doesnt excell at anything. If he dies then keeping your units alive becomes more difficult, if you keep him out of harms way then he will never do enough damage to make him worth taking.

Current idea is you can take a cheap lvl 2 naked necromancer and sit him in a unit out of harms way, and if he does die, chances are that you have another necro or even a necro lord who can cover his role, at extremes even your lvl 1 vamp can risk throwing some raises out there. After all you dont want your vamp risking a miscast aswell.

In the mean time, as most of the infantry units in vampire counts would do more damage licking enemy troops than attacking them, so you need tooled up, combat orientated vampires, ocasionaly with the odd magic trick like taking lore of shadows, to actualy cause the brunt of the damage which wins you combat. Troops will keep you steadfast, vampires will win you combat. And if you cant afford to go all out combat with a vampire, you will never get the most from them. Now you can try fear bomb tactics with screaming banner on skeletons and bloodline power of -1 to all Ld within 6" and the negate bsb reroll bloodline, you might even get a lore of shadow spell off to help augment it further, but so many things these days either casue fear or are immune to fear or are rolling on a ld of close to 9, which makes fear bomb tactics not as good as they should be, and is more circumstantial like for instance if you know your playing low ld like goblins or humans (out of general range).

[WraithGuardian]

Thats usually not what the issue is. Vamps are only slightly more expensive individually, but you are not gonna throw a naked vamp into the fray. You have to equip him to survive and this is where the points start accumulating. You are not gonna send him into a fight without 200pts of gear. For necros thats not necessary

[Korpacz1]

I think I get it... disposable spell spammers for the vamp sig spell and utility

How does this look for a 2500pt army -

Vampire Lord - quick blood, red fury, beguile, tal pres, ogre blade, hellsteed
Necro - lvl2, dispel scroll
Necro - lvl2, some arcane item
Wight Hero

To start I'm thinking:

20 dire wolves
2 big blocks of skeletons with shields (house the necros)
5 hex wraiths
5 hex wraiths
2 smaller units of tomb guards
5 blood guard
2 corpse carts

The vampire lords book is so varied and diverse I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how best to play the army. Do you load up on core and march it forward supported by neheks, corpse carts and other buffs? An all cavalry list with etherels as outriders to hold units in place also looks viable.

[Petrocco]

Well, generally you want to take the minimum 25% core as our units are not very elite. Which is why zombies and skeletons out-weigh ghouls. You'll want to run your dire wolves in small units of 5, dont expect them to do much orther than being a speed bump and redirecting units. You will probably only need 1 corpse cart, just keep it around the unit you absolutely need vigour mortis on. You dont want to make units of grave guard too small as are still pretty easy to kill and you will have to make it through 2 combat phases before you get a chance to ressurect them. Your blood knights and vampire lord will destroy almost anything in combat which is good just be careful about getting them baited out becaus of frenzy.