How To Beat Lizardmen? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Heres the scoop, I'm very new to VC and have no experience with them. I do have one edge and that is I know my opponent extremely well. He likes to beef up on unit or aspect of his army. 95% of the time it is magic. I've played his Lizardmen 4 times and the last 3 he's used a second generation slaan in a 2000 points battle with a large unit of temple guard and large units of skinks. as screens and annoyances.

    I highly doubt that he'll use as many skinks because VC are immune to poison which leads me to believe that he just might ditch the slaan and go more for the Old Blood. But will he be willing to do this seeing as how its quite possible for a Count to put an end to that option. I know that he's is either going to go all combat or all magic.

    I like a balanced army that will be prepared to face the onslaught of the slaan and his priest helpers and at the same time thwart the saurus wall?

    If no, then what would be the most sound approach?

    Either way you do the math, it all adds up to you goin' down

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  3. #2
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    I have a friend who runs a lizardman army, and I think it's a pretty well rounded force. He has a Slann but I haven't played it since the temple guard are still in the painting phase. Still even their regular magic users give me fits. Take a couple of dispel scrolls, or maybe a power familiar, for extra magic defense.

    My buddy leaves his magic users to roam freely behind the army lines. If your opponent does the same, have fell bats go a-huntin'.

    One note, undead are no longer immune to poison. It really stinks, but its true. It was published in the 2002 WH Chronicles, as well as 2003 and 2004.

    And that cold-blooded rule, it's a stinker too. Makes your fear a bit less effective.

    Here's where I've had success against my friend.

    Spirit hosts to tie up Kroxigors.
    Raising units to flank or rear charge for autobreak. Negating his rank bonus and giving yourself the CR bonus is a must with coldblooded.
    Fell bats to get behind the lines and harass magic users.
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  4. #3
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    ONE WORD:
    BANSHEE!

    He do NOT test against the banshee-howl on coldblood!
    So yo can really mess up with his skinks, kroxigors and so on
    Green is good

  5. #4
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    Banshee won't work. He'll always have at least one spell from the Heavens Lore that can pick it off. I don't thik its worth the risk of losing those points as banshees are very expensive.

    I'll post my list here:

    Vampire Count: Von Carstain, Level 2 , Aura of Dark Majesty, Summon Wolves, Ring of the Night, Black periapt

    Vampire Thrall: Extra Hand Weapon, Wolf Form, Flayed Haubrek

    Wight Lord: Battle Standard, Barded Nightmare, Cursed Book

    Necormancer: Level 2, Book of Arkhan, Dispel Scroll

    6 Dire Wolves

    6 Dire wolves

    26 Zombies with Standard and Musician

    20 Skeletons with Full Command, and Light Armor

    9 Black Knights with Full Command, Barding and Banner of the Barrows

    3 Spirit Hosts

    Black Coach

    I always had the intention of the spirit hosts tying up any kroxigors or saurus cavalry. I'm slightly nervouse about the Dire wolves, its possible that they may be wittled down to a small unit strength too small to do anyhting, they are there to hunt for mages and flank. I'll summon wolves firt chance I get to chase down mages that sit out in the open. The thrall will go with one unit of wolves to add to flanking power cuz the wolves won't hold their own on a strong untit like Temple guard. If he does aim spells at the wolves then he's disregarding the Black knights who I'm expecting to take at least half casualties before they in combat. I don't have warhammer chronicles adn I don't see the rules for poison changed on the website. GW should have thought harder because I'm not buying a second rulebook. if they balanced the armies in the first place they wouldn't have the need to rip me off with another 60 dollar book. Undead pay the points for that immunity to poison in spades so too bad for anyone else I'm immune to poison. I still thik I shold have at least one more dispel dice or dispel scroll, but I don't want to lose the Wight Lord or Thrall or the other Necromancer. Summon wolves to me is the dispel scroll since he's going to have to waste power dice for a spell to prevent them from kiling his priests. I don't know how much firepower he's going to unload at the Black Coach. Something tells me none and he'll aim for the Black Knights. My 4 dispel dice ar enough to stop one spell from getting through and and the dispel scroll is a saftey for if he's having a good magic phase. I hope to have his piests out fo action by turn 2, weither they are engaged in combat or dead, as long as they can't cast spells, but if they fleeing or dead would be better. I'm tempted to make a Nechrarch list to cut down on his magic ability but then i loose some hitting power. Power I'll be very much needing to get rid of the slaan. If I can endure 2 magic phases with minimal losses then i should be golden. He's bound for one crappy magic phase and I hope its in the first two turns. I wonder if he'll take cannons as a rare choice though? Those summon wolves should take care of it.
    Either way you do the math, it all adds up to you goin' down

  6. #5
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    I agree with Dargrimm about the banshee. I've never had much luck with her and Lore of the Heavens can cause a lot of problems. At least it has for me in my games against it.

    But yes, the rules for poison are posted on GW's website, under the Chronicles area. GW Chronicles

    Go to the errata and you'll learn the unfortunate news. It stinks. I don't like it at all myself and it seems illogical but there it is.
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    Yes I loked in the errata and its the same errata thats been there before and I pasted into my rule book, there is no change to poisoned weapons. I think you've all been dooped.
    Either way you do the math, it all adds up to you goin' down

  8. #7
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    Originally posted by Dargrimm Firebeard@Jan 14 2005, 19:17
    Yes I loked in the errata and its the same errata thats been there before and I pasted into my rule book, there is no change to poisoned weapons. I think you've all been dooped.
    [snapback]303220[/snapback]
    Sorry, I mistyped. It's in the 2003 Q&A on the page I linked to above. I won't quote it since I want to respect copyright. I guess you can play it however you want and hope your opponent doesn't call you on it.

    So why wolfform for the thrall? Is he accompanying the black knights?
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  9. #8
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    Ok I see it. And no I'll play with the fact that undead is affected by poison. Its just rediculous though. I was gonna put my Thrall in with a unit of Dire Wolves. I was gonna use the Black Coach to waste any of the large units of skinks because he's been known to use large blocks of 25 to 30 and a stand an shoot to my dire wolves would suck unless I can get them in with thebook of arkhan which is precicely my plan. Or charge in at 9 inches away, if he's close enough to throw javelens then he's close enough to get charged and discount his stand and shoot. I'm also thiking of splittnig my black knights in two but then if one spell gets through to one then that unit will be rendered almost uselss. I'm thinking that with 9 and a Wight Lord I should be able to divert his attention off the wolves which will be hunting down his priests and limiting the Slaan's powers but mostly it will minimize his dispel dice to 4 so that I'll be able to loose some of my own spells off and regenerate any wounds skellies or zombies. I figure that my coach will beef a large unit of skins and gain some wounds, and if he doesn't take Kroxigors then my spirit hosts will beef another large unit of skinks thereby creating more safety for my wolves. Hopefull by the third tunr I'll have my whole army in position to charge and completely surround his Slaan and Temple Guard. both wolf units(one with the thrall), whats left of black knights, black coach and skellies with my Count. Then later I might clip his unit wiht some zombies so that he can't allocate so many attacks for easy combat resolution and I get more ranks. If I didn't kill anyone he'd be looking at 9 CR to beat. I suspect taht he'll even fail a couple fear and/or terror tests because he'll be taking A LOT. The odds are bound to hit him. Altogetehr I thinks its a very sound plan and if it doesn't work I can always try to perfect it. The sooner the better though because I'm trying to get the dork to apply some REAL tactics rather than but his eggs in one basket ALL THE TIME. The funny thing is that he thinks he's Mr. Strategy Master and that any time I do beat him its because of the dice. I've become very proficient at breaking baskets the past year I'll tell you that much.
    Either way you do the math, it all adds up to you goin' down

  10. #9
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    Yeah, black coaches and black knights tend to draw a lot of attention. And so do my banshee and grave guard. No one wants to tangle with them. In my last two battles, my grave guard never got into the action. The cowards avoided them.

    You can charge with your Dire Wolves the full 18", right, not just 9". You can pop him with those. Either way, if he concentrates on your knights or coach, then your wolves are free. Or if he goes after the wolves, then the first two are free to wreak havoc.

    So what are his tactics each time? You mention that he doesn't change them. Is it just pound away with magic from the Slann?

    A day or two before the game, tell him that you're vampires are going to drink his thin lizard blood. That should work him up a bit.
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  11. #10
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    yeah he jsut sits back with his Slaan and blasts away with A couple spells like fireball and he lest me have it with lore of heavens pretty good. He'll start with second sign of amul and then move onto the smaller magic missiles. then if he's expended his re-rolls he'll try another second sign with his priests. I'll let all these though because I'm waiting for him to go for the thunderbolt and the comet of cassandora, but I'm mostly worried about Uranon's Thunderbolt. If he takes units of skins around sixe 15 then I'll be hesitant to charge because he'll stand and shoot with that poison ability. I jsut don't want him to decrease my unit substantially. Last 2 games I used the slayer army and his magic did quite a number but the guys at GW mail order said that my magic ward save didn't work against magic missiles which is what I took a lot of damage from. I later found out it does protect against magic missiles. this should be in another thread but how am I gonna get my friend to play against Slayers again when he won't allow my banner to protect against magic missiles? Anyways, he sits behind as much scenerey as possible to protect his flanks adn such. Last game he defended an obstacle which made it hard for my slayer to win in combat but I rolled six 6's out of 7 dice to hit with one of my dragon slayers which won me the game as he no longer defended his position and I jsut slaughtered his temple guard with around 25 attacks a turn. I believe he'll elect to hide again with his big old slaan and use his skinks and some other units, maybe salamanders or jungle swarms as fodder. One large unit of skinks guards the front of his temple guard but i'll charge them with my knights and armor save their javelins, or I'll hit them witht he black coach but I want that thing to hit the flank to make sure his ranks are negated. Its that bloody Slaan. he's almost impossible to kill. I'm convinced that undead have the best chance to kill because if I play my cards right then that unit will auto break and so much for stubborn re-rolls at cold blooded LD 9
    Either way you do the math, it all adds up to you goin' down

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