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I am saying this with love, but I do belive it needs to be said. Also I admit I might be wrong, and please if I am post what you think.
Skellies and Zombies might have weaker stats then a goblin and might not have the power of a brett Knight but lets look at our most loved core units. They all cause fear and thats AWSOME in its self, also they are immune to psych. another plus. They have a infinite unit size and the skellies can get a decient armour save if upgrade them and you think of it all as statisics for this is really a game of numbers. Lets say that we have the almighty think they can kill anything and crap dont stink Brett Knight unit, and me the vampire I am has a unit of what the world thinks as good for nothings 20 skellies(tear in the eye). After the knights charge at my skellies and kill about 6 of them and crumble 3 I in theory have lost a good chunk! But, unlike the goblins and skaven and every other bag of flesh armies out there I just summon more and more for ad infinitium!! By the laws of mathmatics, even though I have skellies that hit on the higher end of the dice, there is power in numbers!!! the knights will kill my skellies, but they cant last forever while we vampires can!!! So what I am saying I guess is as long as you can keep the units coming then by numbers alone and a undying hoard the vampire counts core units are among the most powerful units around!
And yes people I know that magic is a fickle thing but as long as you been pleasing the gods you are good and the magic of your might is insured! (no GIEKO jokes please! )
Yesterday, my unit of 30 skeletons, led by a blood dragon thrall with battle standard, was charged my eight empire knights. I in turn flanked them with 20 zombies. Before all 51 were killed or lost to combat resolution, guess how many knights I killed. TWO! :mad:
It was outrageous. The knights had a 1+ save, and with my blood dragon trading harmless slaps with a general who had a 0+ save (2+ after str modifiers but it was still "Your momma!" SLAP! "No, your momma!" SLAP! etc. etc.), I never did anything but kill off two knights! It was a joke. And was I rolling particularly poor? Not really, below average yes, but not awful. Was he rolling really well? A bit over average, but not oustanding; of course, he didn't need outstanding rolls to hurt my troops.
Skeletons suck. Zombies suck. Yes, they have fear and that often works, unless you're playing one of the countless units that is inherently immune to psych or has some magical device or character making them immune. Frenzied troops, demons, ogres, bret banners, and so on. Fear's usefulness is limited, and you can field only so many vampires to make up for it.
Granted, I'm a bit sore from losing that game because of those knights with a damned 1+ save. And I have seen zombies run down chaos knights, temple guard with slann, and even an elf lord mounted on a dragon (well that last one was grave guard running down a dragon) but those memorable glories are matched with just as frequent failures.
Last edited by DavidWC09; May 2nd, 2005 at 18:09.
Skeleton and Zombie units can't stand on their own, they need support. They're for holding up units, because exterminating a zombie/skeleton unit is quite tough with the invocation. But they won't kill an unit unless they pursue it, and that mostly only happens when they get support. I do think Skeletons and Zombies (well, especially skeletons, I'm not a big fan of zombies, except for speed bumps) are very good and do make up for the points. Fear is very handy and being unbreakable makes them fantastic. Ok, they lose models when they lose a round, but they just get replanished, and I never lose that many because I still outnumber and get rank bonuses. When you put a strigoi (doesn't matter if it's a thrall count or lord) in the unit they're ultimate against other units (4 to 6 S6 attacks which can rerole failed hits in the first round or even every round are very nasty, especially against high toughness guys or knights) I've seen my skeletons kill chosen chaos units or grail knight units. So I do think Skeletons and Zombies rule and are one of the best core troops.
I enjoy zombies and skeletons, but I do have a really big problem with them. Ye really do need a lot of them to be effective. That means good magic, that ye need to rely on. Either i have really bad luck, but the majority of me spells do not go off, so...
Against Bretonnians as you mention undead do have the distinct advantage. The knights strength is break on charge, but they cannot do that, so in subsequent rounds they have 3 guys hitting with a weak s3, the undead then win due to outnumber or at least draw and the knights don't stand a chance. More than 3 would crumble from charge though...
For what they do, block units and try ot win with numbers, they are about the best out there because they don't run, cause fear and can be regenerated. As far as fighting they usually do suck, there are occasional feats of heroism though. I had 3 zombies kill 2 centagors in 1 round once .
They are certainly not underpowered, their stats suck but they have a distinct usage in the army and they do that pretty well to make them competative.
I agree with Schidzo, strewart and I understand that there is army typoes out there that can counter even the best roleing skellies, but that is with all armies. we all have our arch nemisis kinda weakness..but with that aside the skellies are SOOOOOO cool :p :cool: