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Thread: Using IoN

  1. #1
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    Using IoN

    Got a question for you guys. Let's say a Von Carstein vampire is standing alone. He summons a unit of zombies. Can he summon them around himself, where they and the vampire form a single unit? Or would he summon them and join them in the following movement turn?

    That makes me think of this question...could Vanhel's Danse Macarbe be used to move a lone character into a unit?


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    Senior Member Teron's Avatar
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    The latter solution is right. And I don't know 'bout Vanhel's....
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    LO Zealot th0r's Avatar
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    I would say you could create a unit and have the character join the unit automatically. I also see no reason why you couldn't use the dance on a character.
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    LO Zealot Grimbog Elf Ater's Avatar
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    I think that the heart of this question really is: is a character considered to be a unit?

    The answer is yes, each character is considered to be a unit in it's own right (as stipulated in the WHFB BRB under the characters entry on p. 94).

    So, to answer you question regating IoN, you would be well within your rights to create a unit which ranks up beside and behind the character given that any character is considered a unit of it's very own.

    Provides a few interesting options, doesn't it? :hmm:
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  6. #5
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    You're right, he's a unit. But he's neither a zombie, nor a skeleton. Wouldn't any new troops have to be summoned into units of existing zombies and skeletons?

    Grimbog, what do you think about using Vanhel's Danse Macabre to move a character into a unit of troops? Or the Book of Arkhan for that matter?

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    LO Zealot Grimbog Elf Ater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidVC04
    You're right, he's a unit. But he's neither a zombie, nor a skeleton. Wouldn't any new troops have to be summoned into units of existing zombies and skeletons?
    Does IoN's description state that (for adding to a unit) it must add to an existing unit of skellies / zombies and only that type can be added? If it does, I'd say that would prevent you from adding skellies to a lone character... although you could invoke in front of the character and have them join the unit with dance macabre! I'll check it out in detail (don't have my VC book at work with me!) tonight and let you know what I think later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidVC04
    Grimbog, what do you think about using Vanhel's Danse Macabre to move a character into a unit of troops? Or the Book of Arkhan for that matter?
    The only requisite for a character joining a unit is that it has enough movement to contact the unit they're trying to join. They are automatically placed in the front rank, or second rank if there is not enough space in the front rank (Independent Characters Joining Units, p. 95 WHFB BR. Also note that a phase is not specified, so joining a unit does not have to be done in the movement phase, it can be done in the magic phase as well (quite often magical movement phases are classed as 'an additional movement phase' to avoid confusion).

    Hope that this helps you out.
    The iron crowned is getting closer,
    Swings his hammer down on him,
    Like a thunderstorm he's crushing,
    Down the Noldor's proudest king.

    Under my foot, so hopeless it seems.
    You've troubled my day, now feel the pain.
    - Blind Guardian

  8. #7
    Son of LO strewart's Avatar
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    139 (x8)

    I do not think you can make a unit around the character because like you say he isn't skeletons or zombies, the two options are make a new unit or add to skellie/zombie units. (and of course heal, but that doesn't matter here)

    With Vanhel's, of course you can use that to get him into a unit. It effectively gives you an extra move and it is fine to move into a unit, so you can. Why wouldn't you be able to?

  9. #8
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    According to page 59 of the Vampire Counts codex, Undead Dancing allows movement as if in the movement phase. Therefore, a character should be able to join a unit that way.

    On page 58 the description for Undead Rising states that the caster must declare "if he is using the spell on an existing unit (declare target unit), to create a new unit (declare whether Zombies or Skeletons) or to restore lost Wounds...."

    Upon close reading, the description doesn't specify that, when adding to a unit, existing models must be zombies or skeletons, but considering the rest of the sentence, it seems rather obvious. But wouldn't it be cool for the vampire lord to simply summon a dozen skeletons or more to his side, a shambling shield of bones and steel?

    Now why isn't is this easy to figure out the rules in the middle of a game?

  10. #9
    LO Zealot Grimbog Elf Ater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidVC04
    Now why isn't is this easy to figure out the rules in the middle of a game?
    Now that's easy to answer! Because it's like answering a question on 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire!' All fo the pressure of remembering rules while you're in the middle of strategic thought can be quite taxing at times! You should at least be given a 50 / 50 or allowed to phone a friend to clarify such things! :p

    On a serious note though, looks like your questions have been answered, right?
    The iron crowned is getting closer,
    Swings his hammer down on him,
    Like a thunderstorm he's crushing,
    Down the Noldor's proudest king.

    Under my foot, so hopeless it seems.
    You've troubled my day, now feel the pain.
    - Blind Guardian

  11. #10
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    Yup, thinks for the help, guys.
    Last edited by DavidWC09; May 13th, 2005 at 07:02.

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