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G'day my fine lords and ladies; I hereby present this thread to you all for use in the fighting against Vampire Counts. This is to be used in whatever way you all seem fit but the idea I have behind this is...
A tactica type thing. All generals are welcome to post here any tips, tactics, unit break downs, do and don't of the armies and all list break downs (note - not army lists but maybe a skeleton list used to build off etc)
Well that's the idea, I hope it works. I will be watching these and any abuse of thread or things I decide that are not to be in here will be deleted without warning.
Last edited by King Ulrik Flamebeard; September 24th, 2005 at 17:36.
So... does that mean, we have an army playing AGAINST the all powerful Vampire Counts?
The way to beat the Counts in my opinion is to kill their characters. I know this may not be an easy thing to do in some cases (Vampires, Wraiths, Wight Lords). But if accomplished there will be almost no fighting power left in the army.
The General is THE MOST IMPORTANT character to kill. If acomplished you won't even have to kill all of the models to whitewash the Counts.
Combat Resolution can also be the bane of the undead. Swarm armies can be dangerous if thier low leadership, fear tests don't make them scurry away.
Anyway. That is just my view. Any pointers are good.
As a VC player, surviving missile fire is always crucial. Armie with arrows, bolts, cannonshot, hurtling stones, and the like can wreak havoc on a VC player. The typical response is to screen, and VC has good screeners. Spirit hosts soak up mundane fire without damage, and ghouls can weather it with their high toughness. Pick targets carefully and fire away.
And kmm is right. Killing the general almost guarantees a victory.
In my playing (i.e., losing) experience, heavy-hitters do well, units whose strength and toughness is seldom matched in the VC list. Krox's, ogres, and other nasties can tear up a VC battle line.
Also, protect your flanks, as the VC general will be looking for side and rear charges.
kmm4_01 - Yes, this thread is for tips and tactics for fighting against VCs. I hope it will be used by players asking those annoying "how do I beat VC" questions etc, this gives the players chance to ask for weaknesses and what to look out for and hopefully they will all be placed within thei thread making it huge and extremely resourceful.
The general may be the key, but don't forget he has an army. And if he happens to be a big nasty vampire lord, he's going to be extremely hard to bring down. Almost nothing you throw at him one on one in combat will win, and he'll be stuck in a big block of undead, plus he can regenerate if he needs to.
If you forget the rest of his army to try to bring him down, you will still lose since they will kill you before crumbling.
If the battle is under 2k, its easy. He has a soft necromancer as the general, take a suicide model or unit and hit him hard. A flying hero choice of some kind works well, HE commander on eagle, Bret paladin on pegasus just to name a couple. Charge at his unit early, direct all attacks onto him, kill him and be done with it.
When the general is a vampire, the weakness is still in the necromancers. Sacrificing a 150-200 point commander is worth it to kill a level 2 necromancer, the less magic they have the better for you and their magic is very important to them.
Deployment: My biggest victory against VC was when I denied the centre of the board. I put nothing there, and leapt on the flanks. He was forced to put the general on one side or the other, thus losing the influence over his whole army. I easily outmanouvred the flank without the general and wiped them out with flank charges then moved to support the other side.
About that vampire general. As I said, nothing beats him in one on one combat. Your sole hope is making him crumble, which is a bit easier to do. His kills will help his side a lot, I've found a full ranked unit at the front and fast cavalry on the flank is not enough, the bugger will still win. You need a big unit at the front, and at least 2 other units either at the flank or rear plus a character to get some kills. The character, however, should not be at the front. The vampire will carve him up. Hit the unit with that much force and he will crumble fairly quickly.
But only if the opportunity arises. If you focus everything on that, they'll overwhelm you with other units. Main priority is necromancers since they are easy, and outmanouvring the big blocks.
:ninja: I feel like a traitor to the cause. :lol:
load up on dispel scrolls, stopping a vanhels or ION at a critical moment can make all the difference.
For Dwarf armies Bolt throwers and Flame cannons are key VC have low armour saves generally and with a boltthrowers ability to skewer ranks.....
Slayers obviously useful, need large blocks of clansmen so you aren't out numbered.
Some of this might already been said so if it is repetivive i apologize.
Let's look at it this way:
1.) Vampire count units are weak and expensive but cause fear! Rember the rules of fear because the count player will use it to his/her advantage.
2.) One of the unique (and most annoying) abilities of the VC's is to create new units that can easily flank your's while your trying to fight off another 1, resulting in great pandamoium as your CR deteriorates into nothingness and fear sends your troops running in terror.
3.) BEWARE THE VAMPIRE LORD!
So how do we get around this:
1.) High ld won't save u all the time but it beats running for the hills when faced with a skeleton unit. Fearless and stuff are very good but rare and should be reserved for stronger units (a.k.a wights). For skeles and zombies bring some S3 bows or sumthing and shoot them or use troops with some kind of leadership boost (like the general or magic item) in case of fell bats (since you'll be needing your firepower to kill them before they do a number on your machines).
2.) Two words: dispell scrolls.
3.) Since killing the vampire lord dierectly is nigh impossible for most armies you'll have to CR him/her to death or blugon his unit with heavy artillery.
These are just my thoughts so don't think of them as the holy bible of beating Vc's or anything......
"Heresy is like a garden weed, it won't stop feeding until you... BURN THE WHOLE DAMN GARDEN WITH A FLAMER, BURN IT, BURN IT TO HELL!!!!!" "Is there a wittle puppy in the garden? ITS A DAEMON! BURN IT!"
Per Blood Line, you generally want to look at the Trait advantages given go to the inverse to take advantages.
Few Things break open a game against a vampire counts. Vampire Counts have bad match ups against other Breakable units. Their Core units combat stats are that not impressive. General is the core of the army, rarely will a Vampire count player win if there general taken down midgame or earlier. Taken out a Vampire Counts many magic abilities hurts them plenty, but does not put them down for the count.
If you cannot succeed on the above, War of Attrition is the only other way to win.
*Generally a bad idea to field a frenzy units against VC.
Last edited by Shen; March 10th, 2006 at 17:43.
Well, let me see what I can offer here:
First, Let me dispell any myth that some of my other blood drinking colleagues may be proporting here. The Undead are not an army to be snuffed at, and even without the general are dangerous until your knock them into negligible numbers. Undead are strong with magic and come second to few in psychological warfare. The difference here between another fear causing army, like a chaos demonic army, is that the undead are cheap, and therefore easy to supply in number. Dealing with these numbers, nullifying their magic phase, and getting the commander are the three objectives you want to prioritize.
1. know the bloodline you are fighting and adjust accordingly:
a. If nechrarch, take a lot of disspell and be ready to try and draw the general, a phyiscally weak but magically powerful vampire out and into a H2H.
b. Blood dragons should be hit with missles and magic, for the love of god dont trade blows with this guy, he WILL hurt you bad.
c. Strigos: Same as above, hit em with high strength attacks, as they are resilient.
d. Lhamians, use mundane troops that wont be as affected by the llamhian abilities to hem the commander in
e. Von Carstein: guard the flank against wolves and bats, use more H2H as that tempest crap can really damp archers.
2. Prioritize units to fight. DO NOT WASTE TIME ON BLOCKS OF ZOMBIES, any commander worth his snuff will use his blocks to suck up attacks from chargers, heavy hitters, etc. and bite you in the side or back with a black knight or grave guard unit... In other words, take THOSE units, their linebackers away early... missle fire, etc. Whack them first and youll dea with the blocks easier.
3. Take leadership enhancing or leadership negating *immunity to psych* banners and magic items... its gonna such to see your whole unit of men at arms run off the field because you decided to not spend the 20-50 pts on a fearless or fear reducing banner.
4. Disspell: No matter what army you will face, ALL VC use magic regularly and constantly... learn to disspell. A spell not used by the VC is good for you... preventing ION and VHDM are both crucial to win and an easy way to frustrate your opponent into making rash and badly thought out movements.
5. Dont just "throw your whole army at the commander"... we who play VC know that tactic and expect it... if the VC commander is smart, he will place his Gen in a very cushy spot that you will have to bleed and die to get to... focus on whacking the infrastructure of the army, necros are soft targets, thralls and champions with banners, IF the opportunity presents itself, hit the lord/count... but you will bleed to kill him.
6. A bit of missle fire effectively used is good, a hail upon hail of missle fire not hitting squat is bad... remember spirit hosts, zombies, bat swarms, and skeletons can either suck up the missle fire, take it in stride and be resurrected, or not be affected by your now lost shots at all... use it smartly... there are horsemen, coaches, guard, and characters you can use your sharp flying objects against that will count more.
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youve been legal pwned