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Okay... i was considering putting this in that "playing against" thread up there, but I don't really have any information, just a question... and i cant figure out how to delete this =_=
So, how would a summoning heavy Vampire Counts army fare against a SAFH seaguard army of doom?
Last edited by ph34r; September 30th, 2005 at 03:52.
One of that Sea Elves biggest advantages is their special round of shooting after deployment. I've only played against them once, but that one extra round of shooting can be devastating, especially if it is followed by the elf player winning first turn and having a normal round of shooting to add to the destruction.
Still, if your characters are buried inside units, they'll be fine, and if you're summoning zombies and skeletons on the flanks and rears of his shooting units, or just right smack dab in front of them, the VC army will have time to engage the enemy and do what it does best, autobreak the fragile elves in combat.
As it is against any elf army, the trick is to weather the missile fire. And summoning can only help in that effect. Most armies suffer severe and final loss of forces before engaging elves, while VCs simply raise more. It's brilliant. You should eat him for a late dinner.
Last edited by DavidWC09; September 30th, 2005 at 04:51.
As long as you were able to keep your heroes alive they should do decently.. Forget wolves, they'll get shot to pieces before they move, take spirit hosts to use as a screen since the shooting won't hurt them, definitely take the bok of arkhan to move faster, and get stuck into them ASAP.
Strewart's right. Wolves will die in droves, and spirit hosts are superior screeners. Movement spells will serve you well. A black coach should avoid damage from all but the bolt throwers, but it has a good shot of saving any wounds. Plus, you can heal it with IoN. There's no answer in the elf army for a black coach. Then again, the SE army has a Merwyrm which would be a threat. You'd need a heavy hitter to take those things out. Or just swamp it with undead and win combat.Originally Posted by strewart
The 6 or so bolt throwers would probably kill my black coach pretty easilly.
But now that i think about it, a spirit host would be just cruel vs shooty elves
Yikes! That many bolt throwers will tear up anything. Better they lay into a unit of inexpensive zombies than your black coach.Originally Posted by ph34r
Would it be good to go heavy on fell bats? It seems a unit of them would mess up a unit of archers pretty bad.
Yes, fell bats are effective. At minimal point cost and with two wounds, they can get into enemy archers and cause trouble. Take at least four to survive initial missile damage; five is a better number. I like running them at warmachines. Batswarms can work well here, too, but one swarm of bats has both one wound and one attack less than three fell bats at the same cost. And fell bats take up a lot more space, making for a better screen.Originally Posted by ph34r
VC chances verus Shooting army
+15% Unbreakable & Fear (Shooting army rely so much on killing or weaken so you break)(Autobreaking following up with causing panic is shooting nightmares, this is one your primary weapons against MSU Dark Elves, and empire gun line)
+10%Magic Offensive & Etheral (summoning and movements spells)
+5%Stronger HTH Units (meaning you spent a lot more points in making sure you will win in HTH) (Dwarfs shooting will make this field even, but 5% more will go into magic offensive)
Tzeench, Pure shooting instead of Magic, will not releate to the above.
Skaven Cheese Shooting armies does not follow the same citeria, they typically just win.
Therefore VC 80% verus Shooters 20%, you should win majority of the matches, VC naturally designed not to die to shooting armies.
The Best Deployment against a heavy Shooting army to cluster your troops all between a third of the board and half only, on one side only. Summon as much as you can in middle, enagage the summon units in close combat blocks to block line of sight, and spilts the amount of shooting at you for about half. Plus this keep your boys in march range, to allow you to close the distance a lot faster. When you cluster in an area, oppent will try to match when it becomes crowded you already won, and he will end up blocking his own line of sight, you have a HTH force he will able to stop. Also as menitioned above your characters will be saving grace if they get extremely lucky, as long as you hide them.
Fell Bats or Bat Swarms will be thier first target on thier free round of shooting, you really do not have any to protect them. If you Deploy as I menitioned. Then do these first on opposite ends, to make sure he falls in your trap. If they make it into HTH, then it is just bonus points.
Last edited by Shen; September 30th, 2005 at 06:56.
Must be a fairly large battle to have 6 bolt throwers.. You can only take 4 at 2000 points.
I forgot about ghouls as screens. LSG only have normal bows, not long bows, so you have a little bit more time at long range. Plus they skirmish so thats another hit modifier, and they'll need 5's to wound your ghouls. Fairly decent chance of survival unless they are targetted by a lot.
I'm not so sure about fell bats.. It could have just been fickle dice, but when I charged 4 of them into 10 archers they got stuck which allowed time for reinforcements to come. Still, could be worth it especially to bring down those bolt throwers.
I wasn't facing the seaguard list, but when I went against a heavy shooting HE force the wolf thrall rocked. (Carstein, wolf form, great weapon, flayed hauberk) I let him run on his own, shooting needed 5's to wound him then he got a 2+ save so he was pretty safe and wreaked havoc. Killed slightly more than double his points during that game.Seaguard are better in combat than skeletons and definitely zombies.. They fight in 3 ranks when you charge them, and have better stats. Definitely need to flank that lot.Originally Posted by Shen