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Our local Warhammer guru (you know the one, the guy with 10+ armies and near-perfect recall of every rule, past or present, on the records) put together a league and I decided to put aside the Wood Elves and dig up the undead for a swing at things.
And I finally did it, I went with Lahmians. I named mine Nekrophelia because, well, because I found it funny. (I'll post the back story.) She has a bit of Ophelia (crazy for her spurned love) in her. And, well, she still loves Gilles in death, hence the necropheliac name.
Anyhow, I had always avoided Lahmians because they didn't seem to have that much going for them, but she played really well. She went one on one in challenges in the last game as that was the only way to get VPs for killing the general (and because I wanted to see how she'd do), and she lived through every one.
I'm curious what experience you folks have had with Lahmians and what kits you used.
I used this: innocence lost, quickblood, sword of might, spell familiar, and beguile. For the record, beguile never worked, not once. But that -1 to ld is really nice.
Avoid hand to hand mostly, unless you know you can carve through their unit...
You army leadership is FAST build off that well
Cavalry is your friend.... REALLY
Zombies and Skellies are your bumper units, lets them and the spirit host suck in the opponent while your army's heavies (guard and Cav...) knock em in the backside like a prison movie
The using only magical weapons is a plus, but be judicious as to what you use and remember that your llamia leaderess will work best when close to units that suffer from psych tests, the extra initiative will make you VICIOUS in CC if you take a decent weapon, i suggest the tomb blade to give you padded units or if a farshot army, use the asp bow... itll help knockin them captains and champions out.
AGAIN I REITERATE FEAR is your FRIEND
Dont go charging a unit of 40 skells into some fearless slayers or flaggelants... let the cavalry ride them down from a flank while they eat your zombies.
Zombies should be taken in large quantities, my units are all at least 30+, as they hit last and take extra damage every combat they lose... these guys are like conscript infantry.. use them for what they are worth adn send em to a good second death
Ihope that helps
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youve been legal pwned
I never had much luck with Lahmians. Their powers are most effective against enemy characters if you can gain control of them or at least neuter them for the turn, but without good armour and weapons this can be a very dangorous tactic.
In addition because you want to be careful with getting into hand to hand combat with Lamian vampires considering how vulnerable they are you will be limiting your choices in terms of a providing a hard hitting attack to back up the hoards of zombies and skeletons you have.
Takng this into account I wuld probably go for a chunky unit of Black Knights with a wight Lord to give the army the punch it needs while your Vampire(s) offer magical support from a large unit of skeletons.
Last edited by Visitor Q; April 3rd, 2006 at 11:40.
edit Sorry computer went a bit wierd sorry for double post
Last edited by Visitor Q; April 3rd, 2006 at 12:33.
Not satisfied with my previous answer I decided to take a break from my dissertation and actually think out some good tactics for Lahmians. I have only played with them twice so this could be largely theoretical however I am drawing on my long experience of Nechrach and Blood Dragon armies so bare with me.
We are talking standard 2000pt armies here.
Ok well for starters I think your choice of Vampire is top notch:For 10 pts beguile is fine even if it doesn’t work. I am more impressed with the 4 St6 always strikes first attacks.Originally Posted by DavidVOC4
Now I was thinking perhaps if you combine this with a nice unit of grave guard (banner of the barrows of course) you could have a very nasty unit on your hands. Between the Vampire countess probably doing some serious damage to the frontage of the enemy unit (even if the enemy charged) and the grave guards 3+ to hit and killing blow I would feel confident of this unit being able to go toe to toe with anything your opponent could muster.
As a further boost to this regiment perhaps a Wraith with the Obsidian Amulet that would make a good foil for any challengers cause terror and leave the Vampire Countess to do her damage. This would be quite a points sink however.
In terms of the magic phase obviously at least one character should have Necromantic magic to secure that all important Invocation of Nehek, but perhaps a Necromancer with Lore of Death could get some spells to further reduce the Ld of the enemy?
Thralls: I was thinking about Lahmians thralls and I don’t think you should take any. I would go for Wight Lords or necromancers instead. The reasoning behind this is basically a question of positioning. Putting them in a Zombie regiment defeats the point of taking the zombies as a cheap tar regiment in the first place, the equipment and abilities a thrall can contribute to the army are limited compared to those of a Necromancer or Wight Lord.
A word about the -1Ld is perhaps necessary here, the -1Ld works well with Grave Guard because there is a fair chance you won’t out number your opponent so they will be taking a straight Ld test. If your Vampire is in a unit of Skeletons or Zombies the -1 Ld becomes redundant because if you win the combat you should be outnumbering your opponent so the -1Ld only makes a difference for the abilities.
That said a thrall with the asp bow may be useful for taking out war machine crew members or annoying characters bit pricy for what you get though. And a vampire Thrall with quick blood could make a very nasty surprise in a unit of zombies (though she would be accepting any challenges because zombies can’t have champions)
Core regiments would need to be Zombies. The main reason for this is that they are the stereo-typical tar regiment. A decent enemy should know that he won’t be winning a battle with a unit of 30-40 zombies considering you can always add more and they are unbreakable. This means he will be hesitant to charge them with anything decent, this fine because you want him to go into hand to hand with your uber Grave Guard regiment. Hence a large but relatively cheap regiment of Zombies will be a good incentive to get him into combat with the Grave Guard a regiment that previously he wouldn’t have touched with 10 foot cattle prod.
Your offensive magic won’t be that strong (compared to say Nechrachs) and there will also be characters and certain units that your Vampire countess can’t deal with unbreakable units, Greater Deamons etc. Here I think you need some manoeuvrable and fairly fast tar units to deal with them, while you could rely on raising zombie units I would want something more reliable. I would suggest Spirit Hosts. They are perfect for tying up and even destroying annoying unbreakable units such as slayers. Even against troops with magic attacks there high wounds can delay the enemy for several turns.
As an overall tactic then I think you need to break through with your Grave Guard as soon as possible don’t be afraid to take a charge. Your zombies are covering your immediate flanks. Out wide have some wolves to do the usual delaying tactics, if your enemy prefers a close massed deployment you should take advantage of sending your wolves out wide to get behind him.
The main weakness so far that I would see would be your characters being quite vulnerable to a concerted effort by the enemy to kill them and your army lacking enough units with serious punch. Perhaps a small (5-6) unit of Black Knights that would be a reserve unit to throw in once the lines were engaged could be a useful addition.
You know, I've always been reluctant of putting a fighty character in with GG because I've felt that zombies and skeletons need more help. Then again, Lahmians, even with a ward save (only good 33% of the time) are much easier pickings than a blood dragon in full plate with the enchanted shield and some other nasty tricks, and maybe a ward save to boot. I do run necromancers in GG units since people will think twice about charging willy nilly in there after him.
What about your body guard idea in a unit of skeletons? A champion and a wraith in a five wide front with the lahmian?
In the 2000 pt list I used, I had a wight lord but he was mounted and with the black knights.
I agree about the thralls. I think they're pointless unless you really want the fluff. At 2000, I'd say count, two necros, and wraith or wight lord.
You know, I just don't like the asp bow. I've used the hunter's talon with my wood elves, and it works about one round. As soon as your your wood elf (or vampiress) fires, probably hits, and maybe does damage (most enemy characters will be toughness 4, needing 5's to wound), then that character suddenly pops out of his unit and is hiding for the next few rounds. So I'd get one shot to wound (not kill) a character and then be stuck picking off champions. As for warmachines, I just think the 25 points could be better spent: another fell bat or two wolves, for example.
I like the zombie idea as for forcing people into the GG unit. That's what I've learned from past play, people just avoid the GG, especially if a nasty vampire count is in there. I will have to try that strategy.
Thanks for the extended posts, Berny Mac and Deltaguard1894. After playing VCs for a couple of years now, I find that I get into habits of thinking, so hearing some new ideas is always good.
The tactic is a solid one, and very similar to the one i'll be employing (thanks to lots of help). A solid center that isn't afriad to be charged, flanking units that can kill off enemy skirmshers and/or hold up other units, while the center destroys whatever comes at them.
Well as I said my previous tactics were somewhat theoretical and I have never actually used the asp bow so good point raising some practical problems with it. The only thing I can think of is is that prehaps the asp bow can be used precisly for making characters leave units but I think you are right ST 4 just isn't good enough to do real damage especially for 25 pts (which I believe is the cost of a Black Knight)Originally Posted by DavidVC04
The zombie tactic occured to me one time when my brother didn't charge my Zombies with his dragon princes even when it was a rear charge I asked him about it and he said there was no point as his knights would still be stuck their for the rest of the battle. I think Undead have got the two best Infantry units Zombies and Grave Guard and I like using both extensivly.
As for the skeletons + Characters tactic, I am not sure. It might work. Personally I come from the point of view that I want to know something will win, my units may cost a lot of points be over engineered etc but they are very hard, the skeletons would be a cheaper version of the GG but on the other hand they are more vulnerable. If I went for this unit I would arm the skeletons with hand weapon and shield and go on the defensive (I find spears are a waste of points personally) No magic standard either.
But what do you do when terrain, scouts, or flyers skew your battle line? That's when I find myself in trouble. Just sit back and wait for them so that battle formations are kept? Hope Danse Macarbre or the Book of A will realign things?Originally Posted by Von_Smallhousen
Against scouts I normally use Ghouls as they can generally go toe to toe with most scouting units. Flyers it depends light flyers such as Terradons then I use Fell bats for heavier flyers such as Dragons then that is more difficult try and tie them up with a unit of BAt Swarms or Spirit Hosts but it is difficult.