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Hi there, im looking for some help for the 1000 point level.
I play regularly against an ogre army that routinely massacres me with very little problem.
I hav a thrall and 2 necromancers adn normally dominate the magic phase.
However i have no real way to beat the ogres.
Their charge is devastating, i have had over 20 skeletons lost in combat and from crumbling on the first turn, i never seem to get any attacks on the ogres and when i do they normally do little to no damage.
for example my friend in his first game with the army destroy my force without losing a single model.
They could fear so even if i can win a combat they never run, which is one of the biggest advantages of undead (normally)
i am at a loss. No matter the size of my units they get slaughtered, and do not seem to be able to harm the ogres.
the leadbelchers especially seem to cause massive casualties, 2 of them caught my main unit with 35 hits, killing half the unit!!!!
Any general or specific advice would be appreciated.
Hmm... I've never played Ogres, so I really can't help you too much specifically. And 1000 pts. is really low to be able to do much effectively.
The best thing to try to do is utilize fear. Although I think Ogres cause fear, so they are immune to it themselves
Try to use one regiment of Skeletons to tie up the Ogres, while you have a 2nd come around and get a flank charge. Use your Necros and Thralls to Invocation of Nehek and increase the size of your regiments. That always helps.
Maybe someone else can better help you though.
Warhammer Fantasy: Vampire Counts | Wood Elves | Chaos
They do cuase fear, so it all negates.
I also boost my unit sizes to the largest possible, but when on the charge my 30 strong unit loses 14 skeles than 10 more through crumble the enitre unit literally vanishes in one turn, without me doing any damage at all on the ogres.
Against ogres, you want to get on their flanks. as they are expensive, they are usually only 1 rank wide, so a flank charge can really damage an ogre unit: 1. they can't figth back nearly as much as a front charge, 2. their leadership isn't that great = runnaway when they get there asses kicked.
Get some BK or wolves and give em a good ol kick in the kidneys : dont rear charge though, unless you've got something in the front 'cos you'll get all them ogre attacks on you
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Gaze of Nagash tears chunks off them, they have no armour.
I don't know how they're killing so many of your models so easily.. When I play against them, I can be pretty sure my unit of 20 will survive a charge. Maybe not by much, but they'll survive.
1000 points is pretty small for VC as mentioned, you don't have a lot of juicy heroes. You need to get your thrall in a unit and tooled for combat so he can kill them back. And note, even though they cause fear, they will still run from losing combat. Just not automatically.
I found using my units in pairs worked, about 5" apart and angled slighty toward each other. He can either charge one, then get hit in the flank on my turn, or sit still and get charged on the front while the other unit gets to the flank that way.
Hell banner to cause terror (which then goes down to fear) could be a nasty surprise you might even be able to autobreak them given the right unit. There units are quite expensive so even routing one could ensure a huge advantage.
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It would appear that getting charged is your main problem, and it does suck as ogres move 6. Have you thought of using ghouls? They skirmish and will make a useful screen for your main units, and I also think they are the only unit you have that aren't undead so can flee from a charge. If you set it up correctly the ghouls will run and the ogres fail their charge, meaning you are in a prime position to hit him first and with the thrall kicking around in the unit he will be handy in a fight.
Also once you can engage them at the front try and create a unit of skeletons behind the engaged unit and dance macabre them into the rear, instant panic check with their rubbush leadership. The rear charge will force him to divide attacks, does he try and reduce the unit behind to less than 5 and save the +2 combat res? or focus on the front to try and bring down the ranks on the main unit? Makes life difficult. Essentially if you can get the charge off and it comes down to attrition you will win because ogres don't get back up, skellies do.
When you say 2 lead belchers killed 35 models, how many turns are you playing? And are you aware that once a leadbelcher has fired it needs to reload in the next turn? They don't fire every turn.
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The leadbelchers just got VERY lucky, but they still cause a horrific amount of damage.
He will have 2 main units, each with about 5 ogres and 2x 2 leadbelchers
The main units protect each other from flank charges.
I also find flank charges VERY hard to pull off, they outmanouvre me so much because of their speed that he can pretty much choose where to charge and when, which is a problem.
I try to break them but my problem is this, the main unit will kill 15 on the charge and then 10ish each turn, and i cant seem to make that up with combat resolution no matter how hard i try.
that and my main unit is gettin badly hit.
Would people advise taking death magic for the missiles?
And just a general question, if they pursue do they move 3d6 or 2d6?
If they pursue they move 2d6, you need a movement value of 7 to pursue 3d6.
You need to stop trying to take him on head on in combat and manipulate the ogres charges. Like I suggested, use ghouls to bait charges and flee forcing him to fail. This will leave your units in a position to charge.
Alternatively use fell bats to get behind him and march block him, this will slow his advance down and lets you build your units up to huge amounts :w00t: . You just then need to sit back and wait for him to come to you. Also take some magic that will be able to hurt the ogres, that way while they are moving slowly towards you , you will be able to pick some of them off.
Helper monkey, bring me beer and donuts
In terms of technicalities is it possible to create a new unit of skeles to JUST block his charge on my main unit, and position them so thet if he charges the small new unit the overrun could take the ogres off completely in the wrong direction?